WDS 68: Pandu and use of Gomutra (Cow's Urine) by Prof. Ramakant Sharma 'Chulet', Dr. D. C. Katoch, Vaidya Raghuram Bhatta, Dr. Pawan Madaan, Prof. Mamata Bhagwat, Dr. Ravikant Prajapati, Vd. Rangaprasad Bhat, Vd. Pratibha Navani, Dr. Kapil Kapoor, Dr. Ashwini Kumar Sood, Prof. D. N. Pandey & others.

[4/11, 20:00] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Pranaams to all the learned vaidyas !
 Request you all to kindly clarify a doubt. 
How gomutra helps in pandu ? 
In what type of pandu and in what stage of pandu....?
If we correlate with allopathy what types of anaemia respond to gomutra and in what dosage. 
What is the mode of action of gomutra wrt pandu ?

[4/11, 20:54] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Not just this, there are many pandu yogas where gomutra is one of the ingredients or used for bhavana or as sahapana. My doubt is about it's mode of action and stage of the disease where gomutra has to be advised.

[4/11, 20:55] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Gomutra is commonly used in sotha. So should we prefer it when anaemia has advanced to oedema stage or earlier too ?

[4/11, 20:58] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Gomutra alone is being advised now a days for various reasons. So if we want to let our patients who already are consuming gomutra, 

what should be the indications and contraindications ? 

What's the dosage ? 

What are the precautions ? 

What are the signs and symptoms to watch out for ?

[4/11, 21:15] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Madam !
 you have raised a very important issue and every one should involved in it. As per my experience go mutra is a prompt Kshar with high bioavailability it's basic action is against kaph vikkar as lekhan property and neutralize acid {Aam Vish}.

[4/11, 21:48] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

The foremost bioactivity of Pippali is enhancement of bioavailability (योगवाहिगुणकर्मत्व)) of poshak aaharansh and other concomitantly used aushadh dravya. पित्तवर्धन due to pippali use can happen if it is consumed in high doses and on long term basis. Short term use and in small  doses pippali can not be पित्तवर्धक unless the individual is असात्म्य  to pippali or of paittik prakriti. Therapeutic effects of Pippali are attributed to agnideepan,   sookshmasrotoshodhan and kleda-kaphabhedan.

[4/11, 21:50] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Gomutra is a kshara so it's usage in kapha  predominant conditions can be explained. But.....
 why in vata and pitta predominant conditions too ? 
What's the utility of it's vishaghna property in pandu ? 
Already medo kshaya in pandu. So how lekhana property helps ?
And where exactly the lekhana effect seen- on which dhatu or srotas ?

[4/11, 22:15] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

thanks for curious query.  Madam,  properties and actions are dravyashrit, which can not exist alone or independent. It is for the practitioner to see what for and in which condition Gomutra is to be used. Intended uses of Gomutra are conditions of kapha-medavriddhi, srotosang and malasanchaye. In pandu, Gomutra is used for srotoshodhan to facilitate bio-transformation for haemopoiesis.

[4/11, 22:17] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Thanks for the response sir. So can we use gomutra and gomutra containing drugs in any pandu and any stage ?

[4/11, 22:19] Dr Vinod Mittar, Bhiwani: I think no...

[4/11, 22:23] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

Better to use Gomutra and Gomutra containing drugs in Aplastic Anemia,   Pernicious anemia and Secondary anemia resulted from Tuberculosis, Diabetes, CKF etc.

[4/11, 22:26] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

How exactly it helps Sir ?

[4/11, 22:27] Dr Vinod Mittar, Bhiwani: 

According to acharya Sushrut pandu is kafaz vyadhi, means pandu is due to medovriddhi, Ras dhatu agni dourbalua leads to rakt of improper guns. 

So Sushrut pandu is Nutritional pandu. 

It's correction needs katu ras  

So gomutra is best for kafaz, srotoshodhan.

[4/11, 22:28] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 
Thanks sir !

[4/11, 22:31] Dr Vinod Mittar, Bhiwani:

 But acharya Charak ji ka pandu pittaj m mana h, usme Haemoglobinopathies jaise pandu ko le sakte h, 

Pittaz vikaron m gomutra nishiddh h

Vaha Guduchi, tikta ghrit, dadim ghrit useful h..

[4/11, 22:32] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

That s nicely explained . Thanks a lot.

[4/11, 22:33] pawan madan Dr: 

Probably gomutra acts on the Yakrit.

It has spe ial गामित्व towards the yakrita.

And it is used in very small quantities in Pandu ghan yogas, which does not manifest as lekhan but as bringhan.

We see such विपरीतर्थकारी action in herbs and yogs.

The special attention is needed to the dravyas used in conjunction with it.

🙏🙏

[4/11, 22:34] pawan madan Dr: 

To kyaa charakokt paandu me gomutra containing yogs ka nirdesh nahi kiyaa gaya hai ???

[4/11, 22:36] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

In the very first chapter charaka enumerates pandu as one of the indications for pandu though no elaboration given

[4/11, 22:36] Dr Vinod Mittar, Bhiwani:

 If pittaz vikar is there, already pitta vriddhi Or viddaghd pitta then we have to use tikt ras, gomutra will increase problems.

[4/11, 22:38] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

सही पकड़े हैं 😌

[4/11, 22:38] pawan madan Dr: 

Vinod ji mera question.kuch aur tha sir ?

[4/11, 22:40] Dr Vinod Mittar, Bhiwani: 

Batao sir, apka ques dubara🙏

[4/11, 22:41] pawan madan Dr: 

Even if we use punanrnava mandoor in pitta vridhi amlapitta condition.....it doesnt not increase pitta.....

[4/11, 22:42] Dr Vinod Mittar, Bhiwani: 

Sir Punarnava bhi tikt m aata h, y sheet v laghu h..

[4/11, 22:46] pawan madan Dr: 

Punarnava is

katu kashaay

katu vipaak

ushn virya

laghu rooksh

[4/11, 22:48] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

सन्तर्पयति यः स्निग्धैर्मधुरैर्गुरुपिच्छिलैः ।

नवान्नैर्नवमद्यैश्च मांसैश्चानूपवारिजैः ॥३॥

गोरसैर्गौडिकैश्चा१न्नैः पैष्टिकैश्चातिमात्रशः ।

चेष्टाद्वेषी दिवास्वप्नशय्यासनसुखे रतः ॥४॥

रोगास्तस्योपजायन्ते सन्तर्पणनिमित्तजाः ।

प्रमेहपिडकाकोठकण्डू *पाण्ड्वामय* ज्वराः ॥५॥

कुष्ठान्यामप्रदोषाश्च मूत्रकृच्छ्रमरोचकः ।

तन्द्रा क्लैब्यमतिस्थौल्यमालस्यं गुरुगात्रता ॥६॥

इन्द्रियस्रोतसां लेपो बुद्धेर्मोहः प्रमीलकः ।

शोफाश्चैवंविधाश्चान्ये शीघ्रमप्रतिकुर्वतः ॥७॥

Ch su  23

I think this reference will be sufficient for your query. 

Dr Saraswati ji  !!

[4/11, 22:55] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Thank you sir. From this reference probably we can safely deduce gomutra can be used in all santarpanottha conditions and since pandu is santarpana janya, then we can use in all bhedas of pandu. Isn't it ?

[4/11, 22:55] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

What about the mode of action ?

[4/11, 22:58] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Not in all, in santarpanottha only. 

Being kshar it is not a type of rasayan like pippali etc so single use can't break pandu samprapti unless it gets support of appropriate pathya etc.

[4/11, 23:00] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi: 

👌👌👌👌

*very true*

[4/11, 23:27] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

The samanya guna  of astmutra 

Pandurogopsristanamutamam sarma uchyate.

Sleshmanam shamyetpeetam marutam Cha anulomyeta.

Kashretapittadhobhagamityasmin gunasangraha. Ch su1

That means Acharya Charak has said astamutra to be special consideration for panduroga because pacify kaph dosh do anuloman of vata along with it do nishkashan of Pitta from guda Marga (it seems gomutra along with it's ushna and drava property raise the quantity of Pitta and excrete it through guda Marga).

As pandu is to santarpoth vyadhi but it's  samanya Samprapti states 

Dosha Pitta pradhanastu yasya kupyanti dhatushu

Perhaps due to above reason gomutra is used in pandu along with different drvya and pathya.🙏🙏

[4/11, 23:28] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

Quite Vibrant Dr. Pratibha ji !

[4/11, 23:29] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

In Susruta Samhita pandu roga pratisheda nearly 50%of the yogas make use of gomutra. And majority of those have loha or loha kitta or other parthiva dravyas or else used for virechana as with haritaki. Any inferences from this ?

[4/11, 23:29] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 
Thanks sir

[4/11, 23:30] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

👍

मुख्यानि यानि दिष्टा१नि सर्वाण्यात्रेयशासने ।

अविमूत्रमजामूत्रं गोमूत्रं माहिषं च यत्२ ॥९३॥

हस्तिमूत्रमथोष्ट्रस्य हयस्य च खरस्य च ।

उष्णं तीक्ष्णमथोऽरू३क्षं कटुकं लवणान्वितम् ॥९४॥

मूत्रमुत्सादने युक्तं युक्तमालेपनेषु च ।

युक्तमास्थापने मूत्रं युक्तं चापि विरेचने ॥९५॥

स्वेदेष्वपि च तद्युक्तमानाहेष्वगदेषु च ।

उदरेष्वथ चार्शःसु गु४ल्मिकुष्ठिकिलासिषु ॥९६॥

तद्युक्तमुपनाहेषु परिषेके तथैव च ।

दीपनीयं विषघ्नं च क्रिमिघ्नं चोपदिश्यते ॥९७॥

पाण्डुरोगोपसृष्टानामुत्तमं श५र्म चोच्यते ।

श्लेष्माणं शमयेत् पीतं मारुतं चानुलोमयेत् ॥९८॥

कर्षेत् पित्तमधोभागमित्यस्मिन् गुणसङ्ग्रहः ।

सामान्येन मयोक्तस्तु पृथक्त्वेन प्रवक्ष्यते ॥९९॥

[4/11, 23:31] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏🙏Madam

Pandu is a Rasaj vyadhi.

Gomutra is mainly used in kaphaja pandu, mandagni janya pandu ,rasa sangaj stroto vikriti, megaloblastic anemia, aplastic anemia, erythropoietin related anemia, anemia due to infections.......... 
In Pandu, Ayurved classics have advice gomutra as a single drug or in combination with other drugs such as Haritaki or as anupan of medicine. This is due to

the presence of *Gold*, *iron* and *erythropoietin* stimulating factor in gomutra. Iron and erythropoietin stimulating factor maintain haemoglobin levels. 

While ammonia present in gomutra maintains the 

structural integrity of blood corpuscles.

[4/11, 23:32] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Thanks sir

[4/11, 23:32] Dr Surendra A Soni:

 👍👌Dr. Ravikant ji !

[4/11, 23:33] pawan madan Dr: 

Very nicely explained.

But there is more to it.

Why only gomutra has been advocated to pacufy  distubed kapha and meda in pandu like santarpanjanya vyaadhis.

It must be having its Gaamitva and Prabhaav.

🙏🙏

[4/11, 23:34] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

Thank you sir 🙏🙏

[4/11, 23:34] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

While explaining yogas no mention of which type of pandu it acts on. So have to infer. Just wondered what the factors to be taken into consideration.

[4/11, 23:34] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: ✅👌

[4/11, 23:35] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: Informative

[4/11, 23:36] pawan madan Dr: 

Prabhaav of Gomutra.... explained with added new information.....

[4/11, 23:37] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Yes sir, definitely...

[4/11, 23:38] pawan madan Dr: 

Many times we may not explain the right logical explanation.

e.g.Gudmaar which is kashya rasa yukta......but virechak.

[4/11, 23:38] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

All factors to be considered because charak has mentioned various concepts at different places as per necessity. 

You can not expect as per modern description in ayurveda.

[4/11, 23:39] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

No problem. ..Dr. Saraswati ji !

Put your doubts one by one. 

We shall try best at our level.

[4/11, 23:40] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Yes sir, but attempting to find the reason will definitely help me improve my understanding on other aspects too. I never considered many of the points you all are giving regarding gomutra because I didn't know. That way I'm definitely benefitting though goal not fully achieved.

[4/11, 23:41] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 

Arshas- Grahañi-pāñdu is the order of chapters. 

The order is based on the involvement and importance of Agni in the pathogenesis. 

Increasing Agni Bala and anulomana is the sāmānya chikits to sūtra advised to be adopted.

Usage of gomūtra along with harītaki enhances agni, counters kapha, increases pitta. 

And references indicate gomūtra harītaki got kapha varieties of pāñdu, shopha etc conditions only. 🤔

[4/11, 23:42] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Agree sir. Trying to analyze as per Ayurvedic principles. Correlation to modern parameters is desirable but not absolute must for me.

[4/11, 23:42] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Thank you very much sir....

[4/11, 23:43] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi: 

*There is no point in saying excuse in this.Today, after many days, it was very good to participate in the discussion in this way and it was also our revision on PANDU*

           🌺🌹💐

[4/11, 23:43] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Thank you sir.

[4/11, 23:43] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi: *keep it up * 👍👍👍

[4/11, 23:45] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 

http://www.carakasamhitaonline.com/mediawiki-1.28.2/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=Search&search=Gomutra+haritaki

[4/11, 23:46] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 

👆Kaphapāṇḍustu gōmūtraklinnayuktāṁ [1] harītakīm| āragvadhaṁ [2] rasēnēkṣōrvidāryāmalakasya ca||58||

[4/11, 23:47] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

The order and also the rationale differs in charaka and Susruta sir. Gomutra haritaki acting on sotha is due to rechana effect sir. Reduces the fluid overload by expelling fluid with stools. Probably effective in improving renal function. Kidneys play a pivotal role in erythropoiesis hence that way it's effectiveness can be explained in sotha as well as pandu.

[4/11, 23:53] Dr Vinod Mittar, Bhiwani: Good explaination🌹🌹

[4/11, 23:53] Dr. Mrityunjay Tripathi, Gorakhpur: 

👍👍👌👌Nice information..

[4/11, 23:54] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 

May I point out, that it acts in reducing intra cellular fluid in the I/c compartment. 

Pathology of Shotha involves intra cellular compartment. 

In a way, gomūtra harītaki acts in reversing the osmosis at cellular level itself. 

Though, the references at varied chapters point out the target organs (based on the symptoms / diseases mentioned) to splenic, liver, renal, thryroid, āma, medoroga etc. 

Rather than restricting the understanding of G.H at organic level, it would be noteworthy to think it's prabhāva at cellular level. 

I place this opinion with utmost humbleness over the dais of learned scholars and experienced physicians.

[4/11, 23:55] Dr Surendra A Soni: 🙏👍🌹👌🤝👏

[4/11, 23:55] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 🙏🏻 sir.  👏👏

[4/12, 00:00] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi: 

*Your observation is absolutely right on the Gumutra Haritaki.*

     👍👍👌👌👌

[4/12, 00:03] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

Agree sir......great insight 🌷🌷🙏

[4/12, 00:04] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Can you please give reference as to which chapter it's mentioned kaphaj sir...

[4/12, 00:19] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi:


 *PANDU is a अपतर्पण जन्य व्याधि not संतर्पण जन्य, *

*‘सोऽल्परक्तोऽल्पमेदस्को नि:सार: शिथिलेन्द्रिय: च चि 16/ 4-6 .... ‘ रक्त की अल्पता से धातुक्षय हो जाता है।*

*पांडु के दूष्य रक्त मांस और त्वचा है और रस - रक्त वाही स्रोतस की संग और विमार्गगमन दुष्टि होती है।*

*इसके सारे निदान अपतर्पण जन्य है और दिवास्वप्न स्रोतोवरोध में सहायक है।*

[4/12, 00:30] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Based on this explanation which dosha should we consider as main in pandu ?

[4/11, 23:36] Vd Saraswati Sharma: No sir. My thesis is not completed. Still working on it. My thesis is not on pandu sir. It's on Susruta Samhita. But paying attention to what the probable principles are behind various therapies. That's the reason having all these doubts. Pl excuse.

[4/12, 00:37] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi: 

*some time ago this group had a lot of discussion on this subject संतर्पण or अपतर्पण janya vyadhi, my personal opinion is अपतर्पण जन्य.*

*Differences in the ACHARYAS were also before and still remain.*

😀😀😀

[4/12, 00:43] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi:

 *more important than compilation, I give personal opinion that how we have understood this disease.*

[4/12, 00:48] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566776/#__ffn_sectitle 

An interesting article on Bos indica's urine and it's pharmacological actions.

👆

👇

Article information

J Intercult Ethnopharmacol. 2015 Apr-Jun; 4(2): 180–186.

Published online 2015 Mar 7. doi: 10.5455/jice.2015022210032

PMCID: PMC4566776

PMID: 26401404

*Gurpreet Kaur Randhawa¹ and Rajiv Sharma²*

*¹-Department of Pharmacology, Government Medical College, Amritsar, Punjab, India*

*²-Department of Medicine, Guru Nanak Dev Hospital, attached to Government Medical College, Amritsar, Punjab, India*.

[4/12, 00:50] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 🙏👍🤝

[4/12, 01:08] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 

Sir, *kaphaja pāñdu* is pointed out to be santarpanajanya by maharshi caraka, in sū.23/1-7 (santarpañīyo adhyāya). 🤝💐

[4/12, 01:13] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai:

 Correction : 

Sir, *_ Probably_* *kaphaja pāñdu* is pointed out to be santarpanajanya by maharshi caraka, in sū.23/1-7 (santarpañīyo adhyāya). 🤝💐

[4/12, 01:49] Dr Kapil kapoor: 

*Pandu* 

Rasaj vyadhi -where ranjak pitta dushti with durbala rasa dhatu associated.

 *Gomutra*

Breaks the samprapti of pandu

By increasing the ranjan karma of  rasa & by correcting the Durbala Rasa dhatu (probably strengthens the rasa dhatu by acting on rasadhatvagni)

 *Where gomutra to be used ?*

Vatik pandu- vata effecting durbala rasa dhatu - ghruta+ gomutra (e.g.panchagavya ghrutham)

Paittik pandu- pitta in durbala rasa dhatu- godugdha+ gomutra -

Virechanartha

Kaphaja pandu- kapha in durbala rasa dhatu-kevala  gomutra 

or

 harithaki+ gomutra

 or 

mandoora vatakam with bhavana of gomutra .

[4/12, 01:59] Dr Kapil kapoor: श्लेष्माणं शमयेत् पीतं मारुतं चानुलोमयेत्||९८|| 

कर्षेत् पित्तमधोभागमित्यस्मिन् गुणसङ्ग्रहः|

These are the common gunas of all mutras 👆🏻 

But exceptionally 

गव्यं समधुरं 

so as compared to other mutras it's overall effect on pitta is shamana also.

[4/12, 02:34] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 

👌👌👌🤝🤝🤝🙏🙏🙏

[4/12, 02:34] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 

Awesome one Kapil bro. 👌👌🤝🤝🙏🙏

[4/12, 05:09] Prof Mamata Bhagwat: 

1. *Gomutra haritaki yoga is also indicated in Shotha. (Shwayathu)* The intent of using it is to reduce Shotha, reduce the amount of fluid collected, to enhance tissue exchange, to enhance cellular permeability. 

In pandu, alpa rakta, alpa meda, nisarata, indicate the reduced tissue uptake. Inference is Gomutra intervenes and support metabolic activity.

2. *Gomutra is lekhana dravya.* Supports fluid and other abhishyandi dravya evacuation from tissue. 

3. *Agni deepana* .. by enhancing tissue metabolism Agni deepana at dhatu level is done. In pandu, Rasa is in vidagdhata, rakta formation from Rasa is affected. By dhatwagni deepana, rakta Nirmiti is enhanced and there by uttarottara dhatu nirmana.

4. *Pandu is Rasa nimittaja vyadhi,* Rasa nimittanam vyadheenam sarvam langhanam aushadham. Gomutra by lekhana agnideepana properties, provides langhana effects by default. 

5. *Pandu is pitta pradhana vyadhi.* 

Gomutra is not dravya of choice in pittaja vyadhi. But along with Haritaki, as nitya Virechana it supports the major treatment principle of pandu roga ie. Virechana. The abhishyandi guna, Shotha, sroto upalepa these are evaded by lekhaneeya guna which break the samprapti of pandu. 

6. If we look at the other indications of Gomutra, the above points become more valid, like in Amavata, kaphaja Shotha, ...

[4/12, 05:37] Dr. D C Katoch sir: वस्तुतः चरकोक्त पाण्डु is रसप्रदोषज ( nutritional), सुश्रुतोक्त पाण्डु is  रक्तक्षयजन्य   ( blood loss) व हारीतोक्त पाण्डु is मज्जाप्रदोषज (  bone marrow pathology).

[4/12, 05:46] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

Scientific studies done in collaboration with CSIR have proved Gomutra's capacity to improve bio-enzymatic activities and bio-enhancing and hypolipidemic effects.

[4/12, 05:49] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

🙏🏽 नमस्कार आचार्यवर। सुप्रभात !

[4/12, 05:52] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

Namaskar  !

Suprabhat !

[4/12, 05:54] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

बहुत बढ़िया

👌

*इनमें प्रारंभ में वे सूत्र हैं जो उन कारणों को स्पष्ट करते हैं कि भारत गैर-संचारी रोगों की राजधानी क्यों बनता जा रहा है|*

सन्तर्पयति यः स्निग्धैर्मधुरैर्गुरुपिच्छिलैः।

नवान्नैर्नवमद्यैश्च मांसैश्चानूपवारिजैः।

गोरसैर्गौडिकैश्चान्नैः पैष्टिकैश्चातिमात्रशः। 

चेष्टाद्वेषी दिवास्वप्नशय्यासनसुखे रतः।

रोगास्तस्योपजायन्ते सन्तर्पणनिमित्तजाः।

Excessive consumption of unctuous, sweet, heavy to digest and slimy food, new grains, new wine, flesh of animals living in marshlands or that originate in aquatic ecosystems, cow’s milk and its products, and those prepared with sugar or molasses, food items made of flour,  those who hate physical activity (i.e., चेष्टाद्वेषी and thus live sedentary, inactive lifestyles), sleep during the day and enjoy the pleasure of comfortable bed and chairs are prone to santarpana-induced diseases.

Reference--

चरकसंहिता, सूत्रस्थान,अध्याय 23 का तीसरा चौथा और पांचवां सूत्र !

[4/12, 05:54] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir:

 अतिगंभीर एवं अति उपयोगी विचार विमर्श पांडु संबंधी गोमूत्र संबंधी !

[4/12, 05:59] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

It's very interesting topic please do share your this is all of us.

*Also making a request here to all those Vaidyas* who have done their PhD may kindly share there thesis in PDF format here, so that we better understand from your hard work.

[4/12, 07:36] pawan madan Dr: 

*Paandu is not a single disease but a group of diseases/syndromes having one / few similar manifestations.*

🌟🌟

*There may be the manifestation of other Colors on the skin KRISHNA (black), PEETA (yellow) due to DOSHA. But mostly the disease gets manifested with the PAANDU VARNA, therefore the disease is called as PAANDU. (SU. U. 44/1, 4 DALHANA).*

🌟🌟

*Weather it is Kaphaja or apatarpan janya or santarpanjanya we will need to consider its Hetus given in the Samhitas....*

👇👇

*व्यवायमम्लं लवणानि मद्यं मृदं दिवास्वप्नमतीव तीक्ष्णम् |*

*निषेवमाणस्य विदूष्य रक्तं कुर्वन्ति दोषास्त्वचि पाण्डुभावम् ||३|| - SUSHRUTA UTTAR TANTRA 44/3, MAADHAVA NIDAANA*

👉🏻

*...in this ref all are Apatarpan causing hetus but Divaaswaap is Kapha vardhak*.

👇

*क्षार अम्ल लवण अति उष्ण विरुध असात्म्य भोजनात*

*निष्पाव माष पिण्याक तिल तैल निषेवणात*

*विदगधे अन्ने दिवा स्वप्नात व्ययाम मैथुनात तथा*

*प्रतिकर्म्तु वैषम्यात वेगानाम च विधारणात*

*काम चिन्ता भय क्रोध शोक उपहत चेतसः - चरक चिकित्सा १६/७-९*

👉🏻

*....in this also almost all are Apatarpanajany but Divaswaap is kapha vardhak....*

💪🏻💪🏻

and when we see samprapti 

..

*FROM CHARAK CHIKITSAA 16/6 -- PITTA dominant DOSHAS are responsible in pathogenesis of PAANDU.*

*दोषाः पित्त प्रधानस्तु यस्य कुपयन्ति धातुषु*

*शैथिल्यम तस्य धातुनाम गौरवम च उपजायते*

*ततो वर्णबल स्नेहा ये च अन्यो अपि ओजसो गुणाः*

*व्रजन्ति क्षयम अति अर्थे दोष दूष्य प्रदूषणात*

*सो अल्परको अप्लमेदस्को* *निःसारः शिथिलएन्द्रियः*

*वैवर्ण्यम भजते…………*

Here.....

*...pitta vridhi causing most symptoms*

*...even the sym Gaurav is there but that too is not due to kapha vridhi but due to dhatu shaithilya and dhatu kshya*

⚡⚡

Lets see the following ref...

*FROM ASHTAANGA HRIDYA NIDAANA 13---*

*--The vitiated or disturbed PITTA PRADHAANA DOSHAS get harbored in the heart (HRIDAYA) -----=== This PITTA is thrown away by the VAAYU which enters in to the* *DASHADHAMANI ----=== Through these DHAMANI, the PITTA spread all over the body beneath the skin and muscular tissue. (TVAK AND MAAMSAANTARAM) -----==== After reaching there, PITTA VITIATES VAATA, KAPHA, RAKTA, TVAK AND MAAMSA---=== This results in the change in the skin Color to PAANDU (Yellowish white), HAARIDRA (Yellow), HARITA (greenish) ---=== This is PAANDU*.

*TYPES OF PAANDU -* 

Some scholars are of belief that PAANDU is of 8 types. 

*(S.U.44/4 DALAHANA)*

• VAATAJA PAANDU

• PITTAJA PAANDU

• KAPHAJA PAANDU

• SAANNIPAATIKA PAANDU

• MRIDBHAKSHANAJA

• SHAAKHAASHRITA KAAMALAA

• KOSHTHAASHRITA KAAMALAA

• HALEEMAKA

*CHARAKA, ASHTAANGAHRIDAYA* - 

• VAATAJA

• PITTAJA

• KAPHAJA

• SAANNIPAATAJA

• MRIDBHAKSHANAJA

*SUSHRUTA*

• VAATAJA

• PITTAJA

• KAPHAJA

• SAANNIPAATIKA

SUSHRUTA HAS COUNTED MRIDBHAKSHANAJA PAANDU IN SAANNIPAATAJA PAANDU. S.U. 44/4 DALHANA.

Imp....👉🏻👉🏻👉🏻

*Explained by Resp Katoch Sir..*

*Generally,* 

*......malnutrition induced anaemia corresponds to Vaatik Pandu*, 

*.....Haemolytic or liver disease induced to Paittik Pandu,* 

*....CRF induced to Kaphaj Pandu and* 

*Aplastic & Genetic* *Factors related anaemia corresponds to Sannipattik pandu.* 

*However, in Ayurvedic terms exact type of nature of Pandu needs to be determined on the basis of aetiopathological attributes, symptom complex and prakriti &  saar of the individual patient.*

🙏🙏🙏

*The various clinical presentations diagnosed under Paandu need to be evaluted individually and all cases of Paandu cant be lebelled Apatarpan or Santarpanjanya in practice.*

*Gomutra acts in Paandu due to its Prabhaava. Most causes of Paandu arw apqtarpan janya and Gomutra by itself is apatarpana causing but when combined with other dravyas and in small doses it effects directly by vyadhipratyaneek prabhaav*.

😌😌

This is my humble submission and little understanding.

Gurujan can guide more...🙏

[4/12, 07:37] pawan madan Dr: Ranga bro ....has explained well in reply to your post.

🙏🙏

[4/12, 07:46] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

Time devoted analysis👌

Very informative 👌

Just like abstract of a thesis👌

[4/12, 07:48] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

They are upto the mark, it's of no use finding faults in your sincerity and devotion.

[4/12, 07:48] pawan madan Dr: 

If only Rechan effect would have been required ...only haritaki or any other Rechak dravya would have been mentioned, not specifically Gomutra.

🙏🙏

[4/12, 07:49] Dr Bhavesh Modh: 

सांप्रत काल मे जो भी जीर्ण डायाबिटीक मरीज है जो की आयुर्वेद द्रष्टिकोण से प्रमेही बन चुके है उनमे अधिकांश एनेमीया पाया जाता है, उनके चिकित्सको की मुख्य चिंता भी एनेमीया को ले के ही होती है डायाबिटीक CKD के मरीज़ तो 100% एनेमीक ही होता है कभी ना कभी BT भी करवाया होता है ।

यह मरीज संतर्पणम् जन्य पांडु का उत्तम उदाहरण मुझे लगता है ।

विधि छोड के किया गया आहार   संतर्पणम्  जन्य विकार करता है , उस मे कफदुष्टि व मेद संचय के बाद मेददुष्टी होती है 

 कफ ओर मेद संतर्पणम् से बढते है  पर अग्नि का अपतर्पण होता है तो धातु पोषण मे भी अपतर्पण ही होता है नतीजा जो विकार पांडु होगा वह भी अपतर्पण जन्य, अग्नि व धातुपोषक पोष्य भाव का अपतर्पण होने से ही होगा । 

जिस  व्याधि संप्राप्ति विघटन मे क्षार व लवण  जैसे औषध   डायरेकट प्रयोग मे लाने से हानी होती है, ओर संप्राप्ति विघटन के लिए क्षार व लवण जैसे गुणकर्म भी जरूरी है तो इस समस्या का समाधान *गौमूत्र* के प्रयोग से हो जाता है । 

संभवतः गोमुत्र संग जन्य दोष दुष्टी बडी कुशलता से बीना कीसी हानी से दूर करतां है !

[4/12, 07:50] pawan madan Dr: 

🙏🙏🙏💐💐

Paandu is more than Rakta kshya.

Thanks sir.

[4/12, 07:51] pawan madan Dr: 

Different doshas in different clinical presentations of Paandu.

[4/12, 07:53] pawan madan Dr: 

True.

Similar contradictory statements are everywhere in.samhita but actuall they are not contradictory but there meanings have to be grabbed as per the context.

🙏🙏

[4/12, 07:54] pawan madan Dr: 

Kapil ji...

👌🏻👌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙏🙏

A little shankaa...

All pandu are not due to Ranjak pitta dushti.

🤔🙏

[4/12, 07:56] pawan madan Dr: 

🙏🙏

Taken note of....🙏

[4/12, 07:57] pawan madan Dr: 

Thanks for the information sir.

[4/12, 08:03] pawan madan Dr: 

🙏🙏

आपका सन्तर्पणजन्य पाण्डु उदाहरण...👌🏻👌🏻

परन्तु हम ये देखते है गोमुर युक्त योगो का प्रयोग अपतर्पण जन्य पाण्डु मे भी बताया गया है और वस्तुतः हम प्रक्टिस मे ऐसा प्रयोग करते भी है.

🙏

[4/12, 08:15] Praveen Medi Dr: 

👏👌 Very much Appropriate 💐

[4/12, 08:16] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Very well explained sir thanks for sharing your insight👏👏👌🙏

[4/12, 08:21] Praveen Medi Dr: 

A good question by Dr Saraswathi sharma 👌and some great replies by eminent scholars🙏.

1. Gomutra has great affinity for the treatment of kapha dosha. But as the general indications of gomutra as per charaka sutra 1st chapter it also causes Pitta-karshana, Vata-anulomana apart from being kapha hara. Therefore its use in pandu is rational.   श्लेष्माणं शमयेत् पीतं मारुतं चानुलोमयेत्||९८|| 

कर्षेत् पित्तमधोभागमित्यस्मिन् गुणसङ्ग्रहः

2. Pandu is also included in Santrapana janya vyadi by charaka. And in all santarpana vyadhis Gomutra is indicated due to its affinity to cleanse kapha. 

3. Though main dosha of pandu is pitta, but kapha lakshnas are also visible in pittaja pandu (न चान्नमभिनन्दति)and vataja pandu( श्वासगौरवारुचिमान्नरः). 

while kaphaja pandu is more pronounced with edema (श्वयथुं मधुरास्यत्वमिति [१] पाण्ड्वामयः कफात्). 

4. However  better use of Gomutra can be elicited in kaphaja pandu as mentioned by charaka in the same chapter. (कफपाण्डुस्तु गोमूत्रक्लिन्नयुक्तां [१] हरीतकीम्|)

5. To understand from a modern perspective

Haemolytic anaemia (Pittaja pandu) -is characterised by more production of HB due to incresed haemolysis due to pitta. In this condition the ideal management would be "Pitta karsha" which is done by gomutra. 

6. Iron defeciency anaemia - Gomutra has Iron content besides erythropoietin. It should be evaluated for its Iron absorption role.

[4/12, 08:31] L. k. Dwivedi Sir: 

🙏🏼🕉🙏🏼🏹 ATI Sundar,ye mutra varg hai.

Gomutra? Even Narmutram Rasayanm...... thanks.

[4/12, 08:33] Dr Aakash Chhangole:

 पांडू यह पित्त प्रधान दोष का शरीर धातूपर हूआ विकृत कर्म है।जिससे धातू मे शिथिलता होती है।(कर्महानी)

यह केवल रंजक पित्त का व्याधी नही.सभी पित्त के प्रकारों का। 

अग पित्त प्राधान्य से Degeneration of vertebra हूआ है तो यह धी पांडू है !

[4/12, 08:33] Dr Aakash Chhangole: 

इस तरह से मानस विकार  भी.....

[4/12, 08:35] L. k. Dwivedi Sir: 

Gheer, Gujarat ke Gomutra me to gold reported hai.

[4/12, 08:40] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

*If you get answer to my question, while browsing through the Sushruta Samhita, kindly help me as well.* 

*I am writing an article for a peer-reviewed leading journal globally and I would be happy to collaborate with everyone here who contributes.*

The point we are attempting to prove is that *therepeutic use of nature* is primarily in ayurvedic prescription. 

I have already done my work on Charaka Samhita. We need to find references now in Sushruta.

[4/12, 08:41] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

*Those who contribute substantially are invited to become the Co-authors*.

[4/12, 08:42] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

* is primarily *an* Ayurvedic prescription...

[4/12, 08:43] Dr Rajender Bishnoi: 🙏🙏👍🏿

[4/12, 08:46] pawan madan Dr: 😊

[4/12, 08:48] pawan madan Dr: 

Can u pls give an example of what u mean.... by ... therapeutic use of Nature ? 

[4/12, 08:49] Dr Aakash Chhangole: 

।इस ही तरह से अगर पित्त प्रधान्य सै शूक्रदूष्टी  है तो यह शूक्र का पांडू है !

[4/12, 08:50] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

क्या ऐसा उचित है ??

[4/12, 08:51] Dr Aakash Chhangole:

 हा सर .क्यूकी यह शूक्र के कर्म की हानी है !

[4/12, 08:52] L. k. Dwivedi Sir:

 🙏🏼🕉🙏🏼🏹Ek baar mool path drashtavya hai. Punarnava ki yanha atyalpa matra hai, mukhya  Mandoor bhasma ka hai

Vo 6 or 8 times Gomutra me pakane huva yanha Gomutra ka kshriyansa me mukhyatva hai. mool sandarbha patha for SOP . thanks !

[4/12, 08:55] Vd Saraswati Sharma: 

Thank you very much to all of you for responding and clarifying my doubts. Mornings are usually pretty hectic for me so I couldn't go through all your posts with the attention they deserve. Pl allow me to study them and get back in the evening. 🙏🏻

[4/12, 08:59] Prof. Mrinal Tiwari, Pune: Same here

[4/12, 09:10] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

Shukrapandu ? The definition of PANDU should apply to it first . इस तरह तो एक नया रोग का जन्मदिवस हो जाएगा ।

[4/12, 09:14] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

ये सब आयुर्वेद के ऐसे विषय हैं जो आधुनिक वैज्ञानिकों को मंत्रमुग्ध किये हुये हैं, लेकिन वो आयुर्वेद का नाम लिये वगैर अपना शोध कहकर टिकाये जा रहे हैं और दुनिया उन पर मंत्रमुग्ध है|

[4/12, 09:15] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏🙏Sir.....Aurum hydroxide is Gold form present in the Gomutra......... even in godugdha, and goghrita..... Present in Desi Gau varieties of India.

[4/12, 09:26] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

He(Dr. Akash) is talking about dhatu-gatatva  (gradual deeper penitration of pathology) that later involves the ojus as charak described. 

Pandu can be very easily accessed as per dhatu-gatatva pattern. 

Ashwini Sir !

🙏

[4/12, 09:27] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi:

 *पांडु पर मतभेद स्वाभाविक है क्योंकि यह स्वतन्त्र रोग भी है और लक्षण भी, जब चिकित्सा करते हुये रोगी को देखा जाता है और सम्प्राप्ति बनाई जाती है तब यह स्पष्ट होता है।*

*जाठराग्नि की दुर्बलता जन्य आम से अजीर्ण, आमाजीर्ण,ग्रहणी, अतिसारादि।*

*धात्वाग्नि की दुर्बलता जन्य आम से रस, रक्तादि प्रदोषज विकार।*

*इनकी चिकित्सा भी अपतर्पण और संतर्पण भिन्न प्रकार से ही होगी।*

[4/12, 09:35] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

धन्यवाद आचार्य श्री। Your single statement has opened doors for understanding of other धातुगत्वातमक क्षयज रोग !

Dr. Soni

[4/12, 09:59] Dr Aakash Chhangole: 

पांडू is रसप्रदोषज व्याधी  & क्लैब्य is रसप्रदोषज

[4/12, 10:02] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh:

 👍🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

sir there is a que. related to oj , is ojas is one which is produced after shukra dhatu, or oj is the most refined sneh form of each dhatu ?? 

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[4/12, 11:11] pawan madan Dr: 

I have heard this lecture of Resp Mahadevan sir.

He has differentiated Charak and Sushruts paandu.

Good points.

But there are more points also which are being discussed today in this discussion.

[4/12, 11:11] Dr Kapil kapoor: Yes sir, there is overall dushti of pitta. 

सोऽल्परक्तोऽल्पमेदस्को....

वैवर्ण्यं भजते

So primary feature is with the rakta alpata where the pitta dushti janya rasa dhatu vikriti is not able to provide rakta poshak bhaag. 

समुदीर्णं यदा पित्तं हृदये समवस्थितम्||९|| 

वायुना बलिना क्षिप्तं सम्प्राप्य धमनीर्दश| 

Now there is ashyapkarsha of sadhak pitta also..👆🏻

So ranjan karma is just an understanding of varnya effect of pitta which is primarily deranged in Pandu roga.

Sadhak pitta ashyapkarsha is just the final notification of kshaya of ojaso gunaha.

🙏🏻💐

[4/12, 11:13] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Very true sir🙏🙏

[4/12, 11:13] pawan madan Dr:

 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

Rakta alpataa is not the primary feature of Paandu.

🙏

[4/12, 11:14] Dr Kapil kapoor: 👌🏻

[4/12, 11:23] Dr Kapil kapoor: 

प्रधानेन वर्णेनोपलक्षितो रोगः पाण्डुरोगः

Chakrapani

& pandu's varnopalakshitataa is denoted first & formostly with the alparaktataa

🙏🏻

[4/12, 11:41] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Well explained sir👌🙏

The  poshakrasdhatu  that  help  in                               formation  of  raktadhatu  is  destructed  by  pitta  dosha, hence  rakta  is  not  formed  and  result  in  raktakshay.  As a  result  of  this,  all  the  successive  dhatus  are  also  not nourished,  because  it  is  the  raktadhatu  that  nourishes all  other  dhatus.  Rakta  maintains  the  normal  colour  of the  individual,  in  panduroga,  due  to  raktakshay  other dhatus  get  shithilata,  they  lose  their  qualities,  and  the colour  of  body  changes  to  panduvarana.due  to                            raktakshay balakshay also occurs,  because  bala  is                                    depending  on  rakta.  Similarly,  raktakshay  causes ojakshay  too.    hence  raktakshay  leads to  ojakshaya.  Ultimately  all  the  dhatus  become  nissar that  means  they  lose  their  quality  and  functioning capacity. 🙏🙏

[4/12, 12:00] pawan madan Dr: 

Not necessary sir....🙏

[4/12, 12:00] Dr Rajanish Pathak: 

Swaskastata, Rasa chhay janya lalshan seen first in pts...Of pandu

 As told by patients.....

[4/12, 13:28] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:

 *Differential Diagnosis of Santarpanottha and Apatarpanottha Pandu*

*Good discussions* on Santarpanottha and Apatarpanottha Pandu by hon.members of the group, brain storming as usual👌👏👏

I thought let me add some stuff from my end. *Here I am not trying to be technically theoretic* I request the group members to *read in between the lines* .

First let us try to identify *Pandu Roga* on the *basis of discoloration*. Any disease which comes to our table with discoloration will fall into the category of pandu roga *if the discoloration matches with the pandu varna or shades of it*.

Though most symptoms and etiological factors point out towards pandu roga being apatarpanottha, it may be santarpanottha too.

*_Thus pandu roga may manifest in one or the other of the below mentioned possibilities_* –

👉 As a santarpanottha roga (primary)

👉 As an apatarpanottha roga (primary)

👉 As a part of santarpanottha roga (secondary, as a symptom)

👉 As a part of apatarpanottha roga (secondary, as a symptom)

Whether the pandu roga at our disposal is santarpanottha or apatarpanottha can be known through the *presentation of the patient* . We will take *_sthoulya and karshya_* (and other features of santarpana and apatarpana vyadhis) as parameters to access santarpanottha and apatarpanottha pandus respectively. I mean *built and frame* of the person need to be seen as one more *darshana gamya bhava* along with *pandu varnata* of the body / body parts.

The *nutritional status* of the patient and the possible *etiological factors* at the backdrop, when tracked down by history, will point towards pandu being santarpanottha or apatarpanottha.

*Of course other symptoms of santarpana and apatarpana can also be taken, I have just given sthoulya and karshya as examples*.

*Examples* 

👉 If pandu roga is a symptom of *sthula pramehi* then pandu roga will carry the same nidanas, so pandu roga is santarpanottha here and the treatment will obviously follow prameha chikitsa. If pandu lakshanas are more evident and it need to be treated as a symptom of importance in sthula pramehi, it shall be treated on the basis of *santarpanottha pandu chikitsa*.

👉 Similarly if pandu roga is a symptom of *krisha pramehi*, it will obviously be apatarpanottha or dhatu kshayaja. Here if pandu is the main symptom which needs attention, it shall be treated on the basis of *apatarpanottha pandu chikitsa* or *santarpana may be given*.

*So........*

The *objective and subjective symptoms* of pandu along with *vyadhi pratyatma lakshanas* shall be taken into consideration. *Dosha specific symptoms will point towards the dosha vitiation in both these conditions*. The total sum up will give a gross idea for planning proper interventions. 

*_Catch by Colors_*

*Dosha specific colors* should not be missed. In spite of pandu varnatva being the predominant presentation, *vata subtypes* will present with *krushna varnata*, *pitta subtypes* will present with *peeta and haridra varnata* and *kapha subtypes* present predominantly with *shuklatva varna*. These may be shades which super-develop over the pandu varnata or in mixture with panduvarnata and point out towards *predominant dosha involvement* and help us to categorize them into dosha subtypes, which will also help in *dosha pratyaneeka chkiktsa*.

Even here, *kapha subtypes* can be considered as *santarpanottha* and *vata, pitta, or vata-pitta subtypes* can be considered to be *apatarpanottha* due to the degeneration and inflammation these doshas tend to cause. Here the etiological factors, when analyzed will give added clues.

Acharya Charaka also tells that the other colors like *haridra, harita etc* can be manifested in pandu roga.

👉 If for example, the haridra or peeta varna of twak, netra, mutra etc are present right from the beginning along with subjective symptoms of pandu roga, it may be considered as *pittaja pandu* .

👉 If the person had pandu roga and in later course develops peeta or haridratva along with subjective symptoms of kamala, he is said to have *kamala*.

👉 If the patient of kamala develops *Krishna, peeta, raktatva* of body parts, the person is suffering from *kumbha kamala* if he also has subjective symptoms of the mentioned condition.

👉 Similarly, if in later course of vataja or pittaja pandu if the person has *haridra, shyava and peeta varnatva* along with subjective symptoms of haleemaka, he is a patient of *halimaka*.

In all these conditions, the *santarpana and apatarpana* has to be analyzed and the conditions categorized accordingly. This will form a suitable base of *comprehensive treatment* . 

*This is my humble submission* 🙏

[4/12, 13:39] Dr Kapil kapoor: 

Wonderful differentiation Sir 🙏🏻💐

[4/12, 13:41] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

Thanks so much Kapil sir🙏🙏

[4/12, 13:43] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Thank you very much such for making it clear 🙏🙏

[4/12, 13:43] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau: 

Wonderfully  described 🙏

[4/12, 13:47] Dr Divyesh Desai: 

👏🏽👏🏽 Wonderful explained Sir, Was there any connection between PANDU RAJA(Father of PANDAV), and PANDUROG ?

[4/12, 13:49] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

Thanks so much for your kind words🙏🙏

[4/12, 13:49] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

Thanks so much sir🙏🙏

[4/12, 13:53] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Leucoderma is also basically discolouration only may it also be involved ?

[4/12, 13:54] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

Thanks so much sir🙏🙏

Regarding connection with *Pandu Maharaj from Mahabharata*, yes, I feel the famous mythology explains that the king suffered from a disease which resembles Pandu roga, that's why he was named Pandu. Pandu Raj was always weak, most of the time bed ridden, suffering from one or the other diseases, and hence unable to rule the kingdom. That made his blind brother *Dhritarashtra* rule the kingdom. Pandu raja was also pale looking as per mythology. Your question seems to be apt and in sync🙏

(Those who are well versed in mythology and history, kindly correct me if I m wrong)

[4/12, 13:56] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Absolutely true sir....!

[4/12, 13:56] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

If it is present along with subjective symptoms if *Pandu*...yes. and also if the color is in approximation to *classical Pandu Varna description*. Or else let us leave it in *kushta category*🙏

[4/12, 13:56] Prof Haresh Soni: 

King Pandu had also suffered through klaibya.. 

Again Rasapradosha being dominant reason for panduroga and klaibya.

[4/12, 13:56] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

Great point sir✅✅🙏🙏

[4/12, 13:56] Prof Haresh Soni: 🙏🙏🙏

[4/12, 14:23] Praveen Medi Dr:

 🙏This understanding is very relevant and much needed for the  comprehensive understanding of Pandu as a disease/ symptom. 👏👏👏 Wonderful sir 💐🙏

[4/12, 15:21] Dr. Mansukh Mangukia: 

Excellent Sir !

[4/12, 16:01] pawan madan Dr: 

Very well explained Dr Raghu ji.

Hats off..

Few additions..

👉🏻

...Usually we understand that the discoloration similar to Paandu or the Color of the ketaki flower is the color with different shades.....but in a broad sense Harit Peeta Krishna color yukta entities are also included under paandu if they have the similar other symptoms ...e.g. yellow colored kamla is also a type of the Umbrella term Paandu.

👇

There may be the manifestation of other Colors on the skin KRISHNA (black), PEETA (yellow) due to DOSHA. But mostly the disease gets manifested with the PAANDU VARNA, therefore the disease is called as PAANDU. (SU. U. 44/1, 4 DALHANA).

Different phases of PAANDU ARE—PAANDU—KAAMLAA—PAANKI—KUMBHAKAAMLAA—ALSAKA—HALIMAKA – SUSHRUTA UTTAR STHAANA 44/6

Most prevalent color in this diseases is PAANDU which is comparable to the dust of the flowers of the KETAKI

👉🏻

..built and frame....👌🏻👌🏻

...Apatarpoth paandu and Santarpanoth paandu....both depend on their hetus.....true..👍🏻

👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻🙏🙏🙏

[4/12, 19:03] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Excellent inputs Raghu Sir  !

I would like to draw yours and all honorable member's  attention that........

*दोषाः पित्तप्रधानास्तु यस्य कुप्यन्ति धातुषु ।*

*शैथिल्यं तस्य धातूनां गौरवं चोपजायते ॥४॥*

*ततो वर्णबलस्नेहा ये चान्येऽप्योजसो गुणाः ।*

*व्रजन्ति क्षयमत्यर्थं दोषदूष्यप्रदूषणात् ॥५॥*

*सोऽल्परक्तोऽल्पमेदस्को निःसारः शिथिलेन्द्रियः ।*

*वैवर्ण्यं भजते,* 

Above signs and symptoms are merely not indicative of anemia. These are very  close to various types of leukemias, myelotoxicities, bone marrow suppression etc. Causetive factors mentioned by charak are very close to said leukemias etc. This is what we call in ayurveda, is dhatu-gatatva, mentioned by charak in jwar, vat-vyadhi etc. In Said modern diseases, involvement of majja dhatu is obvious. This is clear cut indication of severity of pandu roga.

 For anemia charak has mentioned rakta-dhatu-kshaya signs and symptoms separately that may be also patho/nonpathological as per presentation and here rx has choice for dravya/guna or karma samanya principles.

Charak has mentioned Independent  Pandu after grahani so these kinds of clinical presentation should be taken as primary  and others may be taken as secondary as you described very well. 

🙏🌹

[4/12, 20:47] pawan madan Dr: 

Yes

true.......

thats what I was trying to say....🙏🙏

[4/12, 21:00] Dr. D C Katoch sir:

 Very nicely and minutely explained Dr Raghuram . Please also elaborate what could be the प्रत्यात्म हेतुलक्षणत्व of पाण्डु ।

[4/12, 21:23] Prof. Mrinal Tiwari, Pune: 

Very Good discussion !

👌👌👌👍🌷🌷🌷

One thing what i have come across is Ruksha guna Bahulya.Also in Forensic science study ,Post mortem of anaemic patients show dried organs internally.

[4/12, 21:46] Prof. Mrinal Tiwari, Pune: 

पाण्डु व्याधी का विस्तृत चर्चा पढने के बाद मन आंनदीत हुआ है।इसका क्रेडिट सभी वैद्यो को जाता है।🙏

[4/12, 22:11] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

Wonderful exchange of thoughts ✅

[4/12, 22:32] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

Thanks for good words of encouragement dear sir🙏🙏🙏

*Pratyatma hetu* of Pandu, I meant to say, disease specific causative factors as explained by Acharya Charaka - *kshara Amla lavana atyushna...* (Ch.Chi.16/7-12) 

*Pratyatma lakahanas* of Pandu, I meant to say, disease specific signs & symptoms as explained in the same context - *Sambhute asmin bhavet sarvah...* (Cha.Chi.16/13-16)

When we consider the subtypes of Pandu, the etiology and symptomatology might be dosha specific. 

👉I might have wrongly used the word pratyatma against samanya, but still I meant *disease specific* 

When these present alongside *Pandu haaridra haritaan varnaan bahu vidhaan twachi - Charaka* or *doshah twachaam paandurataam nayanti - Sushruta* will help in appropriate diagnosis.

[4/12, 22:38] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

Thanks sir🙏🙏🙏
You are right, *Pandu* is a *broad spectrum terminology* and shouldn't be limited to Anemia. I too meant the same. 

*Madhava Nidana* has explained *Pandu Roga* after *Krimi Roga* and quotes that *pureeshaja krimis cause panduta* therefore Pandu roga has been explained after Krimi Nidana. 

Many things to ponder upon🙏🙏

[4/12, 22:41] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru: 

Thanks so much Pawan sir🙏🙏
I too hv enumerated the same points that you HV mentioned. 
*Pandu is a broad spectrum term and many conditions fall under its umbrella*🙏🙏

[4/12, 23:26] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala:

 As discussions are not face to face ,so we are not able to understand the love and expression s of each other so we misunderstand the meanings many time .
 And if any member is not participating for few days his silence starts pinching .

[4/12, 23:28] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi: 

*very well analyzed, it is happy to see the knowledge of scholars like you.God bless you*
Dr. Raghu ji !              🌺🌹💐

[4/13, 06:55] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

Good Morning All ! 
Scintillating exchange of thoughts on Pandu. If we refer to the basic cause of Pandu Rog or Pandutva Lakshan, it is not other than Ranjan Karm Dushti. Meaning and implying thereby that Ranjak Pitta is either absolutely/relatively deficient (क्षीण) or adulterated (प्रदुष्ट) or suppressed/antagonised (आवृत या विरुद्ध ) by   certain specific factors, which are विप्रकृष्ट हेतु and the resultant deficiency/suppression of Ranjan Karm of Raktagni is the सन्निकृष्ट हेतु to manifest discoloration. The basic premise in Pandu is thus quality and amount/extent of Ranjan Karm.  Accordingly,  treatment approach for Pandu should be determined on the basis of underlying factors of Ranjan Karm Dushti and consider appropriate prescription to manage both the cause and outcome of सन्तर्पणोत्थ / अपतर्पणोत्थ पाण्डु ।

[4/13, 07:48] Shantanu Das Prof KC:

 Yes true sir....
In our text.... Normaly.... pandu and kamala... Both of  disease jointly.... Described...Both the case skin is vital by which Rakta alpata janya pandurata nd kamala janya pitata...In which Twak vikriti is common factor.... Perhaps by that means kamala is the complication of Pandu... Say Paratantra kamala....
Vagbgat in Nidansthan separately described about pandu nd sotha..  
Where susruta described... Rakta pradusana.. where charaka ... sa Alparakta ta.... means , priority for Rakta is chief posaka of all dhatus...If it is Alpata ... then it will affect to all dhatus....By which ... , mamsa nd Twak both r also consider as Dusya along with Rakta by charak (ch ch.16/9..11)
Finally in treatment...Use of Mandura nd loha shows a deep doctrine in the management of pandu...🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[4/13, 08:53] pawan madan Dr: 

Wonderful exolanation sir...🙏

Can we understand this
...रन्जक पित्त क्षीणता
...प्रदुष्ट रन्जक पित्त
...आव्रित्त रन्जक पित्त
by some examples of clinical conditions so that we can assert what kind of clinical conditions can be diagnosed as Paandu ?

Because until now I was of the impression that even many leukemias come under paandu.
Can we consider ranjak karm vikriti in.leukimias ?

Kindly helo🙏🙏

[4/13, 10:16] Dr Rajender Bishnoi: 

🙏🙏🙏
With regards
Pandu disease
Pandu symptoms
Can we Focus very first on ras dhatu
And rasagni 
Many of GIT Disease where Pandu is originated by GIT DISEASE
IF ras dhatu and rasagni is properly perfect than  secondary step takes place
Ranjak pitta
Dustt
Kshina
Aavart

[4/13, 10:30] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Very true sir that's why most of the drugs which are mentioned in pandu the have agni deepan and pachan property in it most of these formulations contain trikatu vayavidang chavya chitrak nagarmotha etc. 

And along with acharya also suggested these yoga in number of rogas specially Yograj which is said to be "रासायनमिदं श्रेष्ठँ सर्वरोगहरम शिवं।" this clarify agni importance and why pandu is depicted after grahani🙏🙏

[4/13, 10:36] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Apart from this triphala is also mentioned in most of the formulation perhaps  this also depicts how is क्षय of उत्तरोत्तर धातु and to replish it Rasayan is necessary🙏🙏

[4/13, 10:41] Dr Rajender Bishnoi: 

By this suggestion we define 
Santarpanoth
Aptarapnoth

[4/13, 10:46] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

रन्जक पित्त क्षीणता- Vit B-12 and Folic Acid (essential co-enzymes for haemoglobin synthesis)    deficiency   रन्जक पित्त दुष्टि -  Haemoglobinopathy, रन्जक पित्त आवृत/विरुद्ध-   Diabetes,  Tuberculosis induced anemia due to impediment in haemoglobin synthesis.

[4/13, 11:11] Dr Divyesh Desai:

 सर,क्या ये संभव है कि Hb सही है, फिर भी पाण्डु है और
Hb की उणप(कमी) है फिर भी पाण्डु नही है?
या फिर रक्त के अलावा दूसरी धातु के क्षय को भी पांडु के अंतर्गत समाविष्ट कर सकते है?सर आपसे विनंती 👏🏽है इस बाबत में आप प्रकाश डाले, धन्यवाद
जय आयुर्वेद, जय धन्वन्तरि

[4/13, 11:22] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

ऐसा सम्भवतः Hypothyroidism, Renal Failure,  Leukemia  की प्रारंभिक अवस्थाओं में हो सकता है   यदि रोगी की प्रकृति पैत्तिक हो और रोगी रक्तसार न हो।

[4/13, 11:29] Dr. D C Katoch sir:

 देखिए ये दोनों स्थितियाँ इस बात पर निर्भर करती हैं कि रोगी की प्रकृति और सार कैसे हैं ।

[4/13, 12:23] pawan madan Dr: 

Thanks sir.

That would mean Paandu is a group of diseases in which anemia is an essential pathololy ?

[4/13, 12:48] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

Please note, Pandu is reflection  of many underlying factors/morbid complexes; anemia is not pathology and  Pandu is not merely anemia.

[4/13, 12:55] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Dhatu kshaya aavstha basically due to agnimandya leads to Pandu.Pandu में रसवह srotas मे आम से अवरोध होने के कारण शोथ cardinal signहोता है।

[4/13, 14:11] pawan madan Dr: 

Right sir
Till now I consider the same...

Doubt came when u said in all Pandu there is Ranjak karma.dushti.....so asked to clear my doubt.

Thanks....🙏

[4/13, 15:16] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

The fact is that in all Pandus,  Ranjak Pitta Dushti happens, can not be denied.

[4/13, 17:24] L. k. Dwivedi Sir:

 Like to use Sanjivani., for pandu or vatikapandu.

[4/13, 18:35] Vd Pratibha Navani:

 Sir Acharya charak has not mentioned Sanjivani vati it is mentioned by Acharya Sharandhar but it's contents appears to give much promising result in Pandu too bhallatak in sanjivani vati is extrmely pitta vardhak but having ushna guna along with madhur ras it helps to raise the dhatvagni and therefore act as rasayana perhaps good choice for Pandu , opinions of Gurujan are required on this.🙏🙏

[4/13, 19:48] Dr Divyesh Desai: 

जब भी पाण्डु अजीर्ण से,अग्निमांद्य से,या वात कफ पाण्डु हो इसमे संजीवनी वटी अलग अलग अनुपान से फायदेमंद होती है, ऐसा संजीवनी साम्राज्य (लोलिम्बराज लिखीत) पुस्तक में लिखा है 
जय आयुर्वेद, जय धन्वन्तरि।।

[4/13, 19:49] Vd Pratibha Navani:

 Thanks sir fir sharing👍🙏

[4/13, 20:01] pawan madan Dr: 

🙏🙏

How does Sanjivani helps to correct Ranjak pitta karma dushti ?

[4/13, 20:07] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

There is a book -"संजीवनी साम्राज्यम्" authored in Jaipur. This book contains more than 300 specific uses with different anupans and sehpaans. Must read it if interested to learn multidimensional utility and scope of Sanjivani Vati.

[4/13, 20:08] pawan madan Dr:

 Ji sir
I will get it as soon as possible.

[4/13, 20:35] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

Really ? Is it a so wonderful drug ? 
In most of the pts with रक्तार्श, we don't find जठराग्नि मंद but they have severe PANDU; similarly in अत्यार्तव pts we may not find जठराग्नि मंद and PANDU still present. There what should be the samprapti.....

[4/13, 20:47] pawan madan Dr: 

Its auther name ?

[4/13, 20:49] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Hridyagata pitta here seems to be Ranjak Pitta and not Sadhak Pitta and the Vayu which is mention here is Samana Vayu.

As according to Acharya Sanrangdhar 

रसस्तु हृदयँ याति समान मारुतेरित। रंजितः पाचितस्तत्र  पित्तेनायति रक्तताम।।

That means here along with ranjak pitta there is doshprakopan of saman vayu too which udeerna the hridyashrita pitta ( ranjak pitta ) again and after that this prakupit balwan saman vayu drags the udeerna pitta in  das dhamnya.

While giving deepan drugs we also try to treat saman vayu ( सामानो अग्नि बलप्रदः।) 

🙏🙏🙏

[4/13, 20:51] pawan madan Dr: 

Till now I have learnt the places of Ranjaka.pitta mainly in Amashay and Yakrit..

🤔

[4/13, 20:57] pawan madan Dr: 

Lets see this..

FROM ASHTAANGA HRIDYA NIDAANA 13---

*The vitiated or disturbed PITTA PRADHAANA DOSHAS get harbored in the heart (HRIDAYA)* *-----=== This PITTA is thrown away by the VAAYU which enters in to the DASHADHAMANI* 

*----=== Through these DHAMANIS, the PITTA spreads all over the body beneath the skin and muscular tissue. (TVAK AND MAAMSAANTARAM)*

*-----==== After reaching there, PITTA VITIATES VAATA, KAPHA, RAKTA, TVAK AND MAAMSA---=== This results in the change in the skin Color to PAANDU (Yellowish white), HAARIDRA (Yellow), HARITA (greenish) ---=== This is PAANDU*.
*--PAANDU, HAARIDRAA AND HARITA are the different Colors which are manifested on the skin. Amongst these Colors, PAANDU is the mostly manifested Color of the skin. Therefore, the disease is called as PAANDU*.

🤔

[4/13, 21:09] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Same Here Sir but doubtful and curious why  acharya charak has mentioned pitta situated in heart so  come across this Shloka in Sa.🙏🙏

[4/13, 21:33] L. k. Dwivedi Sir: 

🙏🏼🕉🙏🏼🏹lolimbraaj ki nahi balki ek Anya Kavi,"Hari Shastri" ne "Sanjeeni Samrajyam"  likha.
Anupan bheda se Sarvaroga har bataya.

[4/13, 21:39] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey:

 It is indeed that powerful. 

विडङ्गं नागरं कृष्णा पथ्यामलबिभीतकम् ।
वचा गुडूची भल्लातं सविषं चात्र योजयेत् ।।
एतानि समभागानि गोमूत्रेणैव पेषयेत् ।
एकामजीर्णगुल्मेषु द्वे विषूच्यां प्रदापयेत् ।
तिस्त्रश्च सर्पदष्टे तु चतस्त्रः सान्निपातके ।।
*वटी संजीवनी नाम्ना संजीवयति मानवम्।*
---शार्ङ्गधरसंहिता

[4/13, 21:41] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

This last line does point out it's broad range of activity. In addition, I am sure colleagues here must have had huge experience on this drug.

[4/13, 21:43] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey:

 Please correct the spelling to read--
*सञ्जीवनी* and *सञ्जीवयति*

[4/13, 21:46] L. k. Dwivedi Sir: 

Ye Sangrah granth hai poorv varti granth se liya.Ajeern Agnimandhya ke liye.vicare.

[4/13, 21:53] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

Sangrah, but with the outstanding experiential knowledge of Acharya Sharangdhar, who himself was a great physician.

[4/13, 21:56] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

उनका अनुभव वास्तव में बहुत मज़बूत था। यही कारण है राजस्थान की धरती के इस महान आचार्य शार्ङ्गंधर ने, आचार्य चरक की भांति, आयुर्वेदाचार्यों को चिकित्सार्थ असीमित और अपरिमित अधिकार दिये हैं। केवल मच्छिका स्थाने मच्छिका रखने की उम्मीद नहीं किया। 

*व्याधेरयुक्तं यद् द्रव्यं गणोक्तमपि तत्त्यजेत्।*
*अनुक्तमपि यद्युक्तं योजयेत्तत्र तद् बुधः।।*
---शार्ङ्गं., पूर्व. 1.60 (कुछ संस्करणों में 1.54)

[4/13, 22:04] Dr. K. M. Agrawal Sir: 

This book was comment by our teacher Resp. Pro. Madan Gopal ji Sharma SB.

[4/13, 22:05] Dr Divyesh Desai: 

संजीवनी को रंजकपित या पितक्षय  हुवा है तब पुनर्नवारिष्ट या रोहितकरिष्ट के साथ या फिर भृंगराजासव के अनुपान से देने से  फायदा होता है।
विवर्णता पित वृध्दि या पित क्षय दोनों की वजह से हो सकती है।
यहाँ पे अनुपान से ज्यादा फायदा पाण्डु में होता है।

[4/13, 23:13] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

Here Hridya is not the Pitta sthan. Actually there is use ofअलंकार in the language. Pitta pradhana dosha generated in amashayaye after getting absorbed come to the heart ( through portal circulation) from where thrown out via aorta and  ten arteries  ( dashdhamani- 2 coronary arteries, 2 common carotids, 2 subclavian arteries and 2 common iliacs ) to the whole body.

[4/13, 23:26] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

रन्जकपित्तकर्म को ठीक करना दीपनकर्म नहीं है जो संजीवनी वटी से अपेक्षा की जा रही है।  स॔जीवनी तो अन्नवह व रसवह स्रोतों पर आशुकारी कार्य करके संग को दूर करती है जिससे धातुपरिणमन व निर्माण प्रक्रिया में सुधार होता है।

[4/14, 07:50] Dr Divyesh Desai: 

दोषास्त्वची पाण्डुरतां नयन्ति।।
तो पाण्डु में भ्राजक पित,व्यान वायु ओर श्लेष्मक कफ का क्या योगदान है?या केवल रंजकपित ही पाण्डु के लिये जवाबदार है ?

[4/14, 09:16] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

एक बात और स्पष्ट करना चाहूँगा  कि चरक का पाण्डु के परिप्रेक्ष्य में 
*दोषाः पित्तप्रधानास्तु यस्य कुप्यन्ति धातुषु ......
ततो वर्णबलस्नेहा ये चान्येऽप्योजसो गुणाः व्रजन्ति क्षयमत्यर्थं दोषदूष्यप्रदूषणात् .....सोऽल्परक्तोऽल्पमेदस्को निःसारः शिथिलेन्द्रियः वैवर्ण्यं भजते,*  का वर्णन स्पष्ट रूप से सार्वदैहिक पाण्डुत्व या पाण्डुर आभा के लिए है नाकि स्थानिक discoloration के लिए । और  पाण्डु रोग की पाण्डुता (typical discoloration of skin, sclera etc) का स्वरूप  pure pallor से लेकर greenish, blackish pallor कुछ भी हो सकता है अन्तर्भूत दोषों और धातुओं की दुष्टि प्रकार और उत्पन्न उपद्रवों अनुसार । यदि  ऐसा स्वीकार्य नहीं तो पाण्डु का प्रत्यात्म लक्षण-  पाण्डुत्व (pallor) सिद्ध या स्थापित नहीं किया जा सकता। 🙏🏽



🙏🌹

[4/14, 09:19] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

और बहुत सी बातें स्पष्ट करनी पड़ेंगी पांडु के परिपेक्ष्य में समझ में नहीं आ रहा कि जो मत मतांतर आए है अं पर टिप्पणी करनी चाहीए या एक प्रश्नावली डा ल दी जाय उदाहरण के तौर पर .....

[4/14, 09:21] pawan madan Dr: 

Ji sir..

Aapki ye baat bilkul clear hai.
This is one major aspect amongst others.

🙏🙏

[4/14, 09:22] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

In प्रश्नों का उत्तर बाकी है ,यद्यपि ये प्रश्न भी अपनी व्याख्या चाहते है ,अपना औचित्य भी इन्हें इस स्थान पर सिद्ध करना होगा !

[4/14, 09:22] pawan madan Dr:

 Sir 
jis tarah se aapko theek lage par kariye jarur...
🙏

[4/14, 09:23] pawan madan Dr: 

Bilkul...
when we talk about saarvdaihik paandu....then there is an interplay of many factors.....different doshas dushyas and malas...

[4/14, 09:27] Dr. D C Katoch sir:

 शार्ड्गधर संहिता में भी हृदय को जो रंजन कर्म का स्थान बताया गया है वहां भी ऐसा ही अभिप्राय ग्रहण करना चाहिए अर्थात आमाशय से हृदय में आगत रस का सारे शरीर में विक्षेपण होने के बाद  रसरक्त संवहन के दौरान रंजन कर्म होता है  i.e. RBCs acquire haemoglobin during circulation.

[4/14, 10:04] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

यदि पित्त प्रधान त्रिदोष संचय मात्रा मना जाएगा तो अचय प्रकोप की संभावना नस्ट हो जाएगी ।
हम व्यापक रूप से क्यों नहीं पढ़ते ,एक वाक्य की विवेचना करते समय अभ्यूपगम सिद्धांत को भूल जाते है इसलिए लिखना पड़ता है
दो सा पित्त प्रधाना स्तू  य स्य कुप्य नती धातुशु अर्थात्
दोष आ  बहू वचन है तीनों दोष है किन्तु स्पष्टत:सन्निपात नहीं है विचार कीजिए .....
पित्त प्रधान है पित्त प्रकोप तुलनात्मक रूप में ज्यादा है 
धा तुशु प्रको प है अर्थात कम से कम तीन और अधिकाधिक ७ या इससे भी अधिक जगह प्रकोप है 
धातु सैथिल्य एवम् धातु गौरव सब धातुवो में है जिनमे दोष प्रकुपित है ।
दोष जिन स्थानों पर संचित होते है उस जगह पर प्रकु पित नहीं है अर्थात संचय प्रकोप प्रसर का क्रम नहीं है ,
धातुवों में प्रकोप है जिनमे दोष आश्रित रहते है  वहां,
यहां से संप्राप्ति प्रारंभ हुई है ,पांडु रोग से पूर्व आचार्य चरक बहुत कुछ बता चुके है  हम उन्हें भूलकर पांडु नहीं समझ सकते ।
क्या इस दृष्टि से संप्रा प्ती का चार्ट   पुनर्गठन चाहता है मान्यवर सदस्यो !!!!!!

[4/14, 10:07] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

एक और करबद्ध प्रार्थना है ...चरकपर अन्य शास्त्र के विचारो को आरोपित या सामंजस्य करने से पहले चरक को स्वयं को ठीक तरह से जान लीजिए तब आगे का काम सरल हो जाएगा

[4/14, 10:09] Vd Subhash Joshi: 

👍💐👏 EXILLENT. RAMAKANTAJI.... EXACTLY. U. R. Right...!🌸🌷🌹💐

[4/14, 10:13] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

बहुत दुख हुआ यह पढ़कर कि पांडु त्व के लिए मात्र रंजक को उत्तरदाई बताया जा रहा है जबकि चरक कह रहे है दो शा ..... त्वची कुर्वंती वैवर्ण्यम ...सभी दोष वैवर्ण्य कर रहे है ........

[4/14, 10:20] pawan madan Dr: 

🙏🙏

Thank You  sir.
I tried to point this Doshaa pitta pradhaanastu in my 8.57 pm post.
But aapne jo clear kiya to us se jyaada clearity aayi.
🙏🙏

[4/14, 10:22] pawan madan Dr: 

And that vaivarnya is not only paandutva but krishantaa, haritata also....
🤔

[4/14, 10:33] Prof Mamata Bhagwat:

 Sarva daihika pandu and sthanika pandu ?🤔

Can you please elaborate this Pawan Sir ?

[4/14, 10:38] Dr. D C Katoch sir:

 सत्य वचन , सर्वदा ग्राह्य🙏🏽

[4/14, 10:42] Prof Mamata Bhagwat:

 Very well narrated sir, thank you🙏🏼 You have emphasized a very important aspect.

Rasa, Rakta, mamsa and meds are distributed in sarvadaihika pradesha only not obviously visible in sthanika bhaaga. 

Alpa rakta alpa meda are also manifested in sarvadaihika only. If Pandura Varna, nisaarata, prabha Hani are manifested they must be seen in entire body in between the ashaya, in dhatu bhaaga of whole body. We may appreciate it in conjunctiva, sublingual etc, where they are visible in pronounced pattern.

[4/14, 10:44] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

निश्चिततः अकेला रञ्जक पित्त रञ्जन कर्म के लिए उत्तरदायी नहीं है  है।  रञ्जनकर्म दुष्टि के एक से अधिक   हेतु व प्रक्रियांए हैं ।

[4/14, 11:00] Prof Mamata Bhagwat: 

Agni vyapara is the main culprit in causing pandu. Pitta pradhana tridosha lead to vidagdhata of Rasa dhatu, from this vidagdhata the uttarottara manifestations begin. The first and prime one to be named is pandu roga. 
Iron deficiency anemia is a small version of pandu. Anemia of various kinds can also be included in the process. 

Kaphaja pandu has Shotha gourava as presenting features. Agnimandyata is present. Many features mimic that of hypothyroidism. 

Pittaja pandu to that of Myeloid leukemia. 

Vataja pandu to that of sickle cell anemia... Etc varieties of comparison are made and presented in various forums... 

What ever the comparison may be.. 

We can definitely say that.. 
The group of disorders that begin with Agni dishti, lead to vidagdhata of ahara Rasa and there by vidagdha Rasa dhatu.. vidagdhata of rakta this affecting the uttarottara dhatu parampara finally leading to dhatu kshaya, oja kshaya is pandu roga.

This we can see in continuation with Kamala roga also. Pandu is foundation pathological process for Kamala. Dhatukshaya is more pronounced in Kamala. 

This I the reason, in the later shloka, haleemaka, kumbha Kamala are mentioned to particularly state that the oja is in dangerous state. 

Khareebhoto na sidhyati..  asadhya lakshana. This begins with pandu, ends in asadhyata. 

Santarpana nidaana... Finally landing in apatrpana to the extent of oja kshaya. 

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[4/14, 11:01] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

सही इंगित किया आपने । वस्तुतः हमारे शास्त्र "धातु" की तरह हैं ।  तद्तद् शास्त्र से  वैद्य/अध्येता को साधक पित्त व तर्पक कफसहित  उदान वायु की प्रेरणा से "युक्तिवह स्रोतस" के माध्यम से ज्ञान का अभीष्ट उपधातु ( प्रायोगिक अर्थ या व्यावहारिक पक्ष)  में परिणमन करना चाहिए और किट्ट भाग ( अनभिप्रेत व अप्रासंगिक ज्ञान ) को त्याग देना चाहिए ।

[4/14, 11:43] Dr Aakash Chhangole:

 दोषाः पित्त प्रधानास्तू यस्य कूप्यंती धातूषू....
Sickle cell .
she had no signs of anemia.but till it is a pandu....

[4/14, 11:47] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

आपका बहुत बहुत आभार गुरुवर इस अल्पबुद्धि में बहुत से बहुत प्रश्न कुतूहल से व्याप्त थे विशेषता  धातुगौरव धातुशैथिल्य इसलिए गूढ़ अर्थ को समझे बिना जो जैसा लिखा था उसी के अनुसार सम्प्राप्ति बनाने का प्रयास किया आपके मार्गदर्शन से कुछ विषय अब समझ आ रहे है।👌👌👏🙏🙏

[4/14, 17:19] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

मेरा लक्ष्य केवल सही दिशा में विचार प्रवाह को मोड़ना है, किसी की कमी को इंगित करता नहीं ह, चूंकि विषय पर विचार विमर्श चल रहा है इसलिए ध्यान आकृष्ट करना जरूरी था ।
एक और बात कहूंगा आप दिमाग में कुछ भी रखे विचार करे चिकित्सा में सफलता तभी मिलेगी जब पांडु का निदान करके आतुर विशेष में संप्राप्ती की संरचना का अनुमान करते हुए  संप्राप्ति विघटन की योजना बनाएं,तथा उसे सावधानी से कृतानवित करें जैसा की वैद्यराज सुभाष शर्मा जी नित्य बताते है,

यदि हम अनुकरण नहीं करे,  तो ये भी उचित नहीं, सिद्धांत का अनुसरण तो करना ही होगा !





**************************************************************************

Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp-discussion-group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC) 
Professor & Head

P.G. DEPT. OF KAYACHIKITSA

Govt. Akhandanand Ayurveda College

Ahmedabad, GUJARAT, India.

Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com

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