WhatsApp Discussion Series 50: " 'Rakta-kshaye shishir-preeti' & 'Panduroge 'Shishir-dwesha'" by Prof. Satyendra Narayan Ojha, Vd. Vinaya Ballakur. Prof. Ranjit Nimbalkar, Prof. Mamata Bhagwat, Dr. Rajneesh Gadi, Vd. Upendra Dixit, Dr. Vinay Choudhary and others.

[2/2, 7:47 AM] satyendra ojha sir: 

*Shishira dvesha*in pāndu is resultant of cutaneous vasoconstriction (*compensatory mechanism to maintain blood supply to vital organs*) and not just vyādhi prabhāva as explained by Acharya Chakrapani.

[2/2, 7:51 AM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof.: 

रक्तक्षय में शिशिरप्रीति

रक्तेम्लशिशिरप्रीति

पाण्डु में शिशिरद्वेष (रक्ताल्पता के बावजूद)

ततोल्परक्तमेदस्को

पित्तज पाण्डु में फिर शिशिरप्रीति

How to understand and correlate clinically sir? 

[2/2, 7:52 AM] Vd. Dilkhush M Tamboli:

 Sir how can we elaborate this with Ayurved point of view......

[2/2, 7:57 AM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Beauty of Hārita Samhitā ; 

One important concept regarding the mrittikka bhakṡaṅa janya Pandu roga is inferred from Hārita. Hārita has referred to this type of Pandu Roga as Rukshanah Proktah, referring to the main pathogenesis occurring in it. He has also described the qualities of five types of Bhoomi in the chapter on Jala varga. He has described that Krishna Bhoomi is Madhura and Ruksha in quality, while Peeta Varnini is Kashaya in Rasa, Rakta Varna Bhoomi is Tikta in Rasa and Shweta (Sita) Bhoomi is Madhura – Amla in Rasa and Neela Bhoomi is Katu in Rasa. This description of Harita can help in the identification of Rasa of Bhoomi from its color. He has further stated that the water present in such kinds of Bhoomi also harbors the same characters as the Bhoomi itself. Hence, it may be possible to know the Rasa of Bhoomi from the knowledge of the Rasa of water present there.

[2/2, 8:02 AM] satyendra ojha sir:

 My favourite Āchārya Chakrapāni found it as vyādhi mahimā: sine qua nan of disease, only due to understanding of cutaneous vasoconstriction: the reason of cold intolerance becomes clear ..

[2/2, 8:06 AM] satyendra ojha sir:

 It needs to elaborate with ayurved perspective and modern both.. on Facebook, I posted about rakteamlashishirapriti..

[2/2, 8:08 AM] satyendra ojha sir:

 In evening , I will post here.. now , time to get ready for college... Have a great day ahead !!

[2/2, 8:45 AM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof.: Ok sir 

[2/2, 9:09 AM] Prof. Hrishikesh Mhetre:

Rakte amla~*shishira preeti*, is once Very nicely explained by *Vagbhata Hrudaya Ayurveda Bhooshana Vaidya Rasik Pawaskar* sir, in Maadhavaachaarya Gurukulam PUNE.

Let us request him to enlighten us ...

[2/2, 9:53 AM] Upendr dixit Prof. Goa:

 Article of Vaidyaraj Rasik in this regard was published in Madhujeevan. If anyone is having a copy of that, please share.

[2/2, 11:46 AM] satyendra ojha sir:

 These questions were asked by Expert at 7.52 am , it's now about 4 hrs, but none is bothered to reply authentically.. is it ok ?

[2/2, 11:50 AM] satyendra ojha sir:

 All such questions must be dealt by most of experts, so , various ideas will come in light to enhance our knowledge..

[2/2, 11:55 AM] satyendra ojha sir:

 After going through Samhitā , I find that our āchārya are putting their views without criticizing others.. sometimes, they used to mention that it's views of others.. 

I like these way of thinking..

[2/2, 11:55 AM]Vd. Gourishankarji:

 1.अम्लप्रीति , शिशिरप्रीति are the lakshanas or Swalakshana ( लिड़्गानां दर्शनं स्वेषां)  seen in kopalakshana.

2. Body is trying to get back to normalcy of Pitha (to increase pitha)

If both are done pitha will come to its normalcy.

[2/2, 11:56 AM] Vd. Gourishankarji:

 Pitha is the dosha attached to raktha.

[2/2, 11:58 AM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Amlapritti is to increase pitta, but, how will shishirapriti increase pitta or rakta ??

[2/2, 12:01 PM] Vd. Gourishankarji:

 To pacify the vitated pitha dosha , body shows sisirechha .

[2/2, 12:02 PM] Mayur Surana Dr. :

Rakta being Agnisomeeya two varied lakshanas are seen...

[2/2, 12:14 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 This is valid question needs to elaborate.

[2/2, 12:16 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 In rakta kshaya  shishirapriti , and in pāndu shishiradvesha : needs to elaborate.

[2/2, 12:18 PM] Prof. Mamata Bhagwat:

 1. Shonita kshaya➡related vata prakopa➡vata pratyaneeka amlanrasa ichchha.

2. Rakta dravatwa kshaya➡ tejo guna vriddhi➡ shishira prarthana.

3. Agnishomeeyatwa of rakta➡ tat tulya guna amla sheeta ichchha.

4.  Raktakshaya➡ agnimandya, aruchi➡ ruchikara amla rasa ichchha, 

5. Rakta srava➡ related formation of clotting factors. ➡ vaso constriction➡ shishira dwesha.

[2/2, 12:30 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 There  r certain signs or symptoms which r called as विचित्रप्रत्ययारब्ध...which does not seems logical in context of illness ..Such as सर्वरसप्रीती in वातजग्रहणी...  its our duty to find logic behind it..

[2/2, 1:10 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur:

 Nicely explained mam.

[2/2, 1:45 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 Why not madhur rasa ichha..in vataprakopa.. It dravatva kshaya ..,it will increase viscosity of blood... Its not rakta kshay...why not amlapreeti in every type of agnimandya... Peripheral vasoconstriction for preservation of blood supply is seen in acute blood loss ..where patient is already in shock status..

[2/2, 1:48 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

  it's clinical questions..

[2/2, 1:53 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur:

 I shall give it a try.

We have to keep in mind it's shonita we are discussing. Shonita is pitta related. The vata prakopa takes place in a predominantly pitta entity. So immediate response will be the vata prayaneeka it is familiar with and that is Amla not Madhura.

 This is for the first question.

[2/2, 1:59 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 Is it not simple to say that iron absorption is enhanced in presence of ascorbic acid which is abundant in citrus fruits... So natural urge is to go for amlavarg dravya..as Ichha is Atmaguna ..& Atma or genes for an aethist force a person to develop a taste for amla dravya...which is an abundant source of vit c.

[2/2, 2:28 PM] Prof. Mamata Bhagwat:

As a result of rakta srava, blood pH falls. Rakta becomes more acidic due to release of S-100, acidic protein, and fibrins. 

Quite possible to develop hypovolemia in severe blood loss. Hypovolemia➡ reducing O2 levels. This leads to formation of Lactic acid in tissues. The access Lactic acid diffuses into blood turning blood more acidic. As a result of which the alkaline (base ) surge develops. This is a compensatory mechanism of body to combat acidic blood. The alkaline surge in the blood causes katu ushna Bhava 

Which can now be a resultant vata prakopa. Enhanced Alkalinity➡ amlapreeti shishira prarthana develop. 

In mild haemorrhage,  vaso constriction and shishira dwesha develop. 

Iron deficiency, I agree with Vd Rajaneesh Ghadi 

Please correct me if I am wrong

[2/2, 2:32 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur:

 This only goes to validate the experiential science in our shastras. 

Another ex. Amlarasa is described as  hridya in charaka.

Now Vit C in high doses is found useful to clear blocks in coronary arteries.

[2/2, 3:00 PM] ‪+91 94225 92068‬:

 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/iron-deficiency-anemia/expert-answers/chewing-ice/faq-20057982

[2/2, 3:02 PM] ‪+91 94225 92068‬: शिशिर प्रीति in anemia 

[2/2, 3:25 PM] AS Kulkarni Dr.:

 Guruvarya datarshastriji used concept of amla kshara in Panchabhautik Chikitsa. Based on that we can have an explanation for अम्ल शिशीर प्रिती in रक्तक्षय. The मधुर रस of रक्त is derived from union of अम्ल and क्षार aspects of तेज महाभूत. क्षारोहि याति माधुर्यं शीघ्रम् अम्लोपसंहिता। 

[2/2, 3:26 PM] Dr Parag kanolkar : 

[2/2, 4:51 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 I m banging my head since morning but could not find any satisfactory explanation for शिशिरप्रीती in रक्तक्षय & शिशिरद्वेष in पांडु except in पित्तज where its opposite...

[2/2, 4:58 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 रक्तधातु मधुररसात्मक है

[2/2, 5:27 PM] Vinay choudhari Vd.:

 As Pandu is a Roga avastha of Ras gata pitta and not of rakta,majority of symptoms are also associated with Ras dhatu. Because Ras dhatu is closely associated with Manas.And both share common seat that's Hrudayam. that's why whr ever Ras dusti is thr we  see lakshanas related with Ichaa and dvesh - eg jwara purvaroop (sama rasa) ,vatik grahni (sama rasa dhatu),Pandu (sama and sthila dhatu due to hrudaya gata pitta)...In Pandu chikitsa charaka used three ghrutum panchagavya,mahatiktakam,andkalyanak.Foracchapanam ...Common phalashruti among them is they act on Manas and it's sthana is also hrudayam.In Pandu pitta is hrudaya gatam and not raktagatam ...That's why shishira dwesh is thr as a lakshana ...We should also see other lakshana given with it all are samarasdhatu lakshana...Gatrashoola,jwara,Gaurav,shoonakahikoota shotha etc...

 We should also look at pittaj ajirna (rasdhatu gata),rasgatajwara,and Grahni to understand ichha dwesh lakshanas.

[2/2, 5:39 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 सुश्रुतजीने पांडु को रक्तदुष्टीजन्य माना है.. चरक और वाग्भटजीने रसदुष्टिज

[2/2, 6:36 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

It was great discussion on amlashishirapriti, shishiradvesha. and in between , our few Experts posted their pics, i am really sorry for such urge of postings..

[2/2, 6:42 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Two different schools of thought.. really, we are missing something to make a scientific bridge between āchārya charak & āchārya sushruta thoughts.. amlashishirapriti are features of raktakshaya mentioned in sushruta Samhitā and shishiradvesha is mentioned as sāmānya feature of pāndu in Charak Samhitā..

[2/2, 6:43 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 It's really great thought of our āchārya..

[2/2, 6:44 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Simply , but perfect interpretation..

[2/2, 6:46 PM] suchitra ss Dr :

Sir,charakacharya consider pandu under santharpanjaya vikar ,how can we substantiate it  in modern perspective.

[2/2, 6:48 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 If you see , it comes under both santarpanottha and apatarpanottha vyādhi..

[2/2, 6:49 PM] ‪+91 74051 69669‬: 

[2/2, 6:50 PM] suchitra ss Dr :

 We can substantiate easily pandu as apatarpanjaya but what about santharpanjaya?

[2/2, 6:50 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 In sthaulya , pāndu is commonly observed ..

[2/2, 6:55 PM] Dr Anup Baishya, Guvahati: 

Santarpanjanya what is high in carbohydrates and fats which may be lake in iron .So it's may be one of the cause.

[2/2, 6:55 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 The mechanism of erythropoietin (Ep) production after acute haemorrhage has been thought to be due to a reduction in blood volume and tissue perfusion leading to tissue hypoxia. In the present study we have evaluated the effect of acute haemorrhage in the rat on the acid-base status, the red cell affinity for oxygen in vivo, and Ep production. Within a few hours after acute blood loss there was a respiratory alkalosis with an increase in blood pH, a decrease in pCO2 and an increase in the red cell affinity of Hb for oxygen in vivo that was temporally related to an increase in Ep production. Within 24 h after the acute haemorrhage, the blood pH AND PCO2, red cell affinity for oxygen in vivo, and Ep level returned towards normal. The decrease in in vivo red cell affinity for oxygen was associated with an increase in red cell 2,3-DPG levels and a decrease in Ep production.

[2/2, 8:06 PM] ‪+91 94225 92068‬:

 चयो वृद्धि स्वधामनैव प्रद्वेषो वृद्धि हेतुषु।

विपरीतगुनेच्छा च....

रक्तक्षय में शिशिर और अम्ल  प्रिति को क्या इस आधार पर नहीं समझा जा सकता? 

रक्त का क्षय होना, उसके द्रवत्व का कम होना, उसके आश्रयी पित्त की भी द्रवता कम होनेसे पित्त का आग्नेयत्व बढनेसे यह लक्षण उत्पन्न हो सकते है?

अम्ल प्रिति रक्त और  द्रवत्व वृद्धि  हेतु और शिशिर प्रिति पित्त का आग्नेयत्व कम करनेके लिये।

पांडु की सम्प्राप्ति केवल रक्त क्षय नही दर्शाती। उसके पित्त के साथ वात की भी प्रधानता है। अतः केवल रक्त क्षय के लक्षणोंसे उसके लक्षणोंको नापा नही जा सकता।

[2/2, 8:07 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 रक्तक्षय और पांडु मे भेद क्या है.. उसे clinically कैसे पहचाने ?

[2/2, 8:08 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Raktakshaya (acute haemorrhage) and alpa rakta in pāndu should be considered separately.

[2/2, 8:09 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Yes , this point needs to be discussed here..
 Alpa rakta is rakta poshaka sāra bhāga anutpādāta...

[2/2, 8:10 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 क्या पांडु शरिरांतर्गत haemolysis दर्शाता है ?

[2/2, 8:10 PM] venugopal Dr. :

 Raktakshaya is Agantuka janya

Pandu is Nija

Quantitative and qualitative decrease.

[2/2, 8:11 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Yes , why not ? Kaphaja pāndu , sannipātaja pāndu and pāndu in plīhāvriddhi should be considered

[2/2, 8:12 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Meda kshaya and plīhā vriddhi relationship is based on haemolysis.

[2/2, 8:15 PM] ‪+91 94225 92068‬:

But sir if Raktakshaya is due to hemorrhage, the symptoms should be of dhatukshayaj vataprakop. Then there should be शैत्य द्वेष not शिशिर प्रिति.

In this case Raktakshaya can be because abnormal nirmiti of raktadhatu.

[2/2, 8:15 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

In pittaja pāndu, pita Varna shows that there is haemolysis leading to icterus.

[2/2, 8:19 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

It's acute conditio, so , compensatory mechanism does not work , due to blood loss , fluid volume depletion is leading to shitapriti , here , shitapriti means desire for shita āhara vihāra , similarly , as in Trishna in which ambu dhātu kshaya is present , again , āchārya chakrapani , here , find , ambu means rasa raktādi ambu dhātu..

[2/2, 9:03 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

In pāndu , compensatory mechanisms work to maintain blood supply to vital organs at the cost of cutaneous , splanchnic , renal & skeletal vasoconstriction .. due to cutaneous vasoconstriction shishiradvesha ( cold intolerance ) manifest..

[2/2, 9:07 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 In pittaja pāndu , dāha , Trishna , shītakāmechchha like features appears due to pittasya ushna gunādhikya
 (inflammation)..

[2/2, 9:15 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

Meda-sarakta meda-vrikka (moola)-renal erythropoietin factor.

Rakta-raktavaha srotas-yakrita& pleeha as moola- hepatic erythropoietin & thrombopoitin factors..

[2/2, 9:17 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Prof. Ranjeet Nimbalkar ji, as per my knowledge, I posted my review on your questions.. 

[2/2, 9:31 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof.:

Yes sir..  

Tx for all ur enthusiastically active support sir

[2/2, 9:35 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Salient features of charak samhita , chi. 22/ 60-61 : 

Pūrvamayāturah...............tasmāddhānyāmbu pibettrushyan rogi sasharakarākshaudram... 

The application is based on clinical observations .. 

In 22/57-62 , āchārya Charak mentions in details about indications and contraindications of water intake..

[2/2, 9:47 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

रक्तस्रुतीजन्य रक्तक्षय पांडुमे consider कर सकते है क्या... पांडुत्व और पांडुमे क्या भेद है...

[2/2, 9:50 PM]Prof. hrishikesh mhtre: 

 पूर्वामयातुरः सन् दीनस्तृष्णार्दितो जलं काङ्क्षन् ।

न लभेत स चेन्मरणमाश्वेवाप्नुयाद्दीर्घरोगं वा ॥६०॥

तस्माद्धान्याम्बु पिबेत्तृष्यन् रोगी सशर्कराक्षौद्रम्

In devanaagaree script for easy reading.

[2/2, 9:57 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

Pāndutva must be considered as clinical sign
 (observable) and pāndu as a disease. For example, pāndutva is present in acute Myocardial infarction...

[2/2, 9:59 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 So in रसदुष्टीविकारा चरक has mentioned पांडुत्व not पांडु.....

[2/2, 10:01 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 Why it is always that Acharyas have clubbed together pandu & kamala..seemingly different pathological entities ..

[2/2, 10:01 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 There must be discussion.. but , I find it as pāndutva , not as pāndu.. even in pheochromocytoma , pallor is present..

[2/2, 10:01 PM] Vd Shriprasad Bawadekar:

 Panduta is paratantra laxan. Pandu is svajanma svahetu sva upashaya vyadhi.

[2/2, 10:05 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 It was their way of description, if you see, hetu, chikitsa are mentioned separately for kāmalā, shākhāshrita kāmalā and halimaka..

[2/2, 10:06 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 We must differentiate pittaja pāndu with bahupitta kāmalā..

[2/2, 10:06 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

So is it not logical to consider that all haemolytic anemias which has got potential to cause icterus if pathology is not halted or augumented by nidan hetu can be considered as Pandu vyadhi.

[2/2, 10:06 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

Purpose was to go through in details for differential diagnosis..

[2/2, 10:08 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Definitely, you know , in hepatitis,due to haemolysis and other reasons anaemia, and in megaloblastic anaemia jaundice are present..

[2/2, 10:10 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 See, at the end of kumbha kāmalā, āchārya Charak mentions sangyānāsha shows that it should be considered as hepatic encephalopathy..

[2/2, 10:11 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Harita Varna in halimaka shows that it's due to biliverdin which is increased in sclerosing cholangitis..

[2/2, 10:12 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Charak samhita is based on clinical observations with therapeutic experiences..

[2/2, 10:13 PM] Dr. Rajaneesh Gadi:

 अम्लसेवन which is desirable in रक्तक्षय is one of d hetus of पांडु..

[2/2, 10:14 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof. :

 Tx to all for valuable inputs... 

Basic question remains the same.. 

1. What is the exact *clinical* difference between rakta kshaya and pandu

2. Pandu is pittapradhan awastha.. Then why shishirdwesh..? 

पित्तप्रधाना कुपिता: यथोक्तै: कोपनैर्मला:

3. Is shishirpriti observed in raktakshaya in routine clinical practice? 

4. Shishirpriti/shishirdwesh means shishir sparsha or veerya? 

Amla rasa is उष्णवीर्यं हिमस्पर्शम्

 

[2/2, 10:14 PM] ‪+91 94225 92068‬:

 यः पाण्डुरोगी सेवेत पित्तलं तस्य कामलाम।

क्या इससे आप सहमत नही ?

[2/2, 10:15 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof. :

 Gentle request to stick to the exact query raised...to avoid undue diversion

[2/2, 10:15 PM] satyendra ojha sir: Yes , I am agreed ..

[2/2, 10:20 PM] ‪+91 94225 92068‬:

 Though this is not the only way to develop kamala, as it has been also written as 

भवेतपित्तोल्बनस्यासौ पाण्डुरोगादृतो$पि च।

[2/2, 10:25 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Raktakshaya is acute or chronic conditions , but  pāndu is always chronic condition.. in sāmānya lakshana of pāndu , shishiradvesha is mentioned , it indicates that body is compensating for santarpana to vital organs.. 

Shishirapriti is very common in raktakshaya.. shishirapriti means desire for sheeta āhāra vihāra..

[2/2, 10:26 PM] satyendra ojha sir: 

[2/2, 10:26 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof. : Tx sir

[2/2, 10:34 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur:

 Rakta kshaya is a group of symptoms with regard to kshaya or decrease of blood. 

Pandu is a complete disease with its own samprapthi. It is more than just less blood in body. It also indicates a lowered metabolism.

How many symptoms of hypothyroidism do we find in Pandu including shishira dvesha ? 

We make the mistake of equating Pandu with anemia when actually it is more than that.

[2/2, 10:35 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Hunt points to a phenomenon called the mammalian diving reflex as a possible reason the ice-chewing caused better test performance. When submerged in water, most air-breathing vertebrates slow down their heart rate and constrict blood vessels in their arms and legs. This decreases the oxygen supply to the body’s periphery, saving it for vital organs.

[2/2, 10:39 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

Pāndu is one of features of hypothyroidism.. again in hypothyroidism, cold intolerance is due to decreased BMR(vasoconstriction),and heat intolerance in hyperthyroidism is due to increased BMR(vasodilatation )

[2/2, 10:42 PM] ‪+91 94225 92068‬: 

अगर ग्रंथसन्दर्भ देखें तो पांडु यह रसज व्याधी है और कामला रक्तज व्याधी है।

दोष वृद्धि क्षय लक्षणोमे जो रक्तक्षय बताया गया है वह केवल रक्तसृति से नही है। वह रक्तनिर्मिति की विकृति ही है। 

रक्त में पित्त की अत्यधिक वृध्दि शायद शीतेच्छा लक्षण का कारण है क्योंकि रक्तपित्त में भी 

शीतेच्छा धूमकोम्लक:। यह लक्षण आया है।

[2/2, 10:43 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 In the absence of thyroid hormones,anemia frequently develops and may be normocytic, hypochromic-microcytic, or macrocytic. ... Pernicious anemia has been strongly associated with hypothyroidism,hyperthyroidism, and thyroiditis..

[2/2, 10:50 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 You are right .. but, consider the difference between raktakshaya in  Raktapitta & in pāndu due to pitta vriddhi : very nice commentary by acharya chakrapani on *so alpa rakto*..

[2/2, 10:50 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur:

 True. Raktakshaya is raktanirmiti vikruti and also deficiency due to bleeding. This can be equated with anemia.

[2/2, 10:53 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur:

 True sir. The symptoms that arise are almost like the symptoms of Pandu. 

Anga shaithilya and Anga gourava.....

[2/2, 10:57 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Fanconi's anaemia associated with haemophilia A.

Ljung R, et al. Clin Genet. 1979.

Abstract

Fanconi's anaemia and haemophilia A are born inherited diseases creating haemostatic defects. The association of these two rare diseases in one patient is described. The patient's haemophilia was studied with a newly developed immunological technique determining the plasma antigen associated with Factor VIII activity, and was found to be a genetic variant of moderately severe haemophilia A. It was not possible to demonstrate a common bone marrow defect or a common immunological or genetical background of the two diseases. The double haemostatic defect created, i.e. Factor VIII deficiency and thrombocytopenia, resulted in only a slight increase in bleeding tendency. A favourable result was obtained with corticosteroid and androgenic treatment..

[2/2, 10:58 PM] Chandrakant Ji AP: Yes Sir. 

[2/2, 10:59 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur: Completely agree

[2/2, 11:00 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

 Distinct pathology is present in thyroid disorders..

[2/2, 11:02 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur:

 surely Pandu is an independent disease with signs and symptoms of  lowered metabolism.

[2/2, 11:03 PM] Vd Vinaya Ballakur:

 What I am trying to emphasize is let us not equate Pandu with anemia. Its bigger than that.

[2/3, 8:13 PM] Vd. Chinmay Phadake:

 क्या पांडु रोग में शिशिरद्वेष लक्षण का संबंध रक्तक्षय से ना जोडकर हतानल से जोडना ठीक रहेगा ? 

जब अग्नि हत हो तब अग्नि विपरीत शीत वीर्य द्रव्यों का द्वेष तर्कसंगत है । 

पूर्वरूप में वर्णित स्वेदाभाव लक्षण हो तब भी स्वेदन विपरीत स्पर्शशीत और वीर्यशीत द्रव्यों का द्वेष हो सकता हैं ।

[2/3, 10:03 PM]Vd. Rasik Pawasakar:

 About Rakta Kshaye Amla Sheeta Preeti

I have written a complete article about this Rakte Amla Shishira Preeti earlier. Instead of going into that article and that detailed thought process again, I would like to give a simpler answer. Please consider this.

RaktaKshaya is caused by Rakta Dhatwagni Vruddhi. So, we have two conditions in the body. Teja Kshaya in Rakta Dhatu and Overall Teja Vruddhi in the body. So, at the Sharira Level, there would be Daha. So, while the Sharira wants to increase Teja in Rakta, it would want something against the Daha, too. Here Amla Rasa is important as it is उष्ण वीर्यो हिमस्पर्शः । Hence, Amla and Sheeta Preeti

[2/3, 11:05 PM] Vd. Dilkhush M Tamboli:

 

अम्ल रस

उष्ण वीर्य हिम स्पर्श

+

Taking care...of...हृदय

[2/3, 11:19 PM] satyendra ojha sir:

Hataanala is cause of shishiradvesha in hypothyroidism, not in pāndu .. in hypothyroidism, udāna āvrit samāna is a process leading to hatānala(dhātvāgni), hence, cold intolerance manifest.. 

In pāndu , there is rakta prasāda sāra bhāga anutpāda , for maintaining the normal rasa-rakta  vikshepana to vital organs , body compensate it at cost of decreased rasa-rakta vikshepana to less important organs like skin, therefore, sveda srotorodha and in turn sveda abhāva and due to rasa-rakta srotorodha, shishiradvesha is possible..

************************************************************************************************

Above discussion held on 'Ayurveda Peetha"(initiated by Prof. S.N. Ojha) a Famous WhatsApp group of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor

Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

EMAIL: surendraasoni@gmail.com

Mobile No. +91 9408441150