Case presentation: 'Agni-karma'(Modified) in Herpes Zoster by Dr. Anoop Kumar Indoria

[6/8, 11:40] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

Cotton ball agnikarm in Herpes Zoster.

[6/8, 11:55] Rameshwar Rao Rane:

great sir.

[6/8, 12:00] Dr Sunil Jain: 

Dear 

What’s r the benefits over oral medications for this agni kerma ?

Does it help to prevent in post herpetic neuralgia ?

[6/8, 12:09] Dr Raj Tilak Tiwari:

 Sir

Follow up of patients, please post it.

[6/8, 13:04] Dr Yogesh Gupta: 

 SUPERB SIR.

 I HAVE NEVER SEEN. THANKS A LOT SIR FOR SHARING THIS.

[6/8, 13:11] Dr Rupesh Vadher Junagadh: 

प्रणाभिसर वैद्य !

अति सुंदर !

[6/8, 13:14] Dr Giriraj Sharma: Good

[6/8, 13:33] Omkar Barge Dr Ana: Nice

[6/8, 13:58] Dr Surendra A Soni:

Excellent Dr Anoop ji !

You kept your promise.

1. Can it be said *'hetu-vyadhi -vipareetaarth-kaari'* measure..?

2. Applicable in acute phase of HZ ? 

Or useful in post HZ neuralgia only ?

[6/8, 14:00] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

Certainly it is vyadhi vipareetarthkari as processor is showing upashaya 

Because every hot procedure is krimighna it is Beti vipareetarthkaari also  therefore it may be stated as Hetu vyadhi vipreetarthkari.

[6/8, 17:50] Manu Vats Dr Patiala: 

Superb Dr Anoop and THANKS for live demonstration.

[6/8, 18:08] Dr. R S. Soni, Delhi: Great !

[6/8, 18:20] Harish Verma Canada: 

Dr Manu Ji, 

Is there any research paper written on Agnikarna in Herpes Zoster.

If this technique is effective in Herpes Zoster then why AYUSH or ccras modify it. 

1. For better sterlization: 

This procedure can be done on minor OT.

2. One can also try some controlled electric heating equipment.

Its just an idea.

[6/8, 20:00] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

I don't publish still paper. But I used it in more than 100 patient of acute and post herpetic neuralgia without any complication and 100% effective. Only 3 to 7 seating requires.

[6/8, 20:05] Urvashi Arora Dr: 

Sir do u give sitting every day or at intervals.

[6/8, 21:00] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

Everyday 3 to 5 in acute condition. In post herpetic neuralgia 3 everyday followed by 4 alternate seating.

[6/8, 21:28] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

This is first seating to patient. Patient came to me after 5 days of its appearance. So there are scars on front side. This is very mild agnikarm. One fallow suggested for electric heating. I also experimented for hot fomentation but cure not achieved. Cure achieve in cotton ball agnikarm.

[6/8, 21:32] Anita Bhirud: 

Thanks for the video.. Sir what are the other conditions where you have tried this cotton ball agnikarma. Any post agnikarma application??

[6/8, 21:49] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Thanks Sir !

[6/8, 22:05] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

I didn't use cotton ball agnikarm in other conditions. Shuddh Goghrit or Jatyadi Ghrit may be used post agnikarm.

[6/8, 22:21] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

 I can't say about measure. Because the hetu of HZ is virus and I didn't studied antiviral effect if mild agnikarm in my this experiment due to deficiency of such experimental model. But it may be further study design in PG or Ph.D or EMR project.

More beneficial in acute stage. Patient never develop post herpetic neuralgia. Useful in Post herpetic neuralgia if not treated proper initially by any other system of medicine.

[6/8, 22:28] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

There is no post herpetic neuralgia if cotton ball agnikarm performed in acute stage. If any other system treated patient developed neuralgia then also complete curative treatment. I treated 2 year old Post herpetic neuralgia successfully by this method.

[6/8, 22:36] Dr Sunil Jain: 

 This is really unique invention by u 

 off sir

[6/8, 22:41] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

Very interesting indeed, and as you suggest very effective as well. I have a few questions: I am wondering how painful the procedure is to the patient? Also the kind of scars it might leave on skin ?

[6/8, 22:43] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

I only represented. Agnikarm mentioned in Visarpa chikitsa. Although cotton ball agnikarm is not mentioned.

[6/8, 22:47] Anju Navle Dr. Puna: 

Sir thanks for taking time to share your knowledge and experience.

The cotton used is the sterile one that we use for clinic purpose? 

Also how about daily hygiene/can sponging be done ?

[6/8, 22:51] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

As I experienced it is not painful to patients. Because the ignited cotton get off or become dim on touch to skin. But patient react due to fear. On second or third visit he becomes familiar for procedure. There is no scar due to agnikarm. But Herpes itself is scaring disease.

[6/8, 22:53] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

Thank you indeed doctor saheb for these insights.

[6/8, 22:56] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

I am using the cotton of cotton mattress used for sometime. Medicinal cotton or new cotton have above mentioned disadvantage of over flaming and complete get off on touching to skin. Compressed cotton may be useful. We touches the burning cotton to patient skin. The above mentioned cotton can be used with Sterilization.

[6/8, 22:58] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

This is real sense contribution Sir !

I request all honourable members that please give feedback in group after using this simple but effective procedure.

Thanks a lot Acharya ji !

[6/8, 23:01] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: ✔✔✔✔

[6/8, 23:01] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

Sir ji Herpes ka patient aane par hi to use karenge. I want to put it previously but after so long patient came today.

[6/8, 23:02] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Yes Sir ! I meant same.

[6/8, 23:03] Anju Navle Dr. Puna: 

Sir since the complete process takes more than a week, what do's and don'ts to be followed for this agnikarma, specially can a patient take bath or do sponging of body ?

[6/8, 23:05] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

Doctor saheb, I have another request. As you have large number of patients, and solid implementation of this technique on them, it would really be a great idea to write about it in a good journal. 

Even if it is a case study, it is worth publishing in a peer reviewed International Journal.

[6/8, 23:07] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

I am suggesting this because these are some of the techniques that address the worst of diseases on which modern science has failed fully and completely.

[6/8, 23:08] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

I suggest patient to not touch water on affected part. Except this nothing special.

[6/8, 23:10] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

That make sense to avoid secondary infection. Recently the challenge I had requested to address here in the group, we used the ethnomedicine as well as Jatyadi.

[6/8, 23:13] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

 I want to write on this situation but every time I didn't find any confirmatory method of diagnosis and confirmatory method of evolution of efficacy of technique. So can't conclude still.

[6/8, 23:14] Anju Navle Dr. Puna: 

Thank you !

[6/8, 23:19] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey: 

Under the situation you are in, the best way to represent it is as a case study. Later on, you can always develop as a clinical study. Further on, you can develop editor as clinical trial.

[6/9, 03:39] Harish Verma Canada:

For diagnosis this  information may be useful.

https://www.cdc.gov./shingles/hcp/diagnosis-testing.html

Clinical Diagnosis

The signs and symptoms of herpes zoster are usually distinctive enough to make an accurate clinical diagnosis once the rash has appeared. However, diagnosis of herpes zoster might not be possible in the absence of a rash (i.e., before rash or in cases of zoster without rash). Herpes zoster is sometimes confused with herpes simplex, and, occasionally, with impetigo, contact dermatitis, folliculitis, scabies, insect bites, papular urticaria, candidal infection, dermatitis herpetiformitis, and drug eruptions. Herpes zoster can be more difficult to diagnose in children, younger adults, and people with compromised immune systems who are more likely to have atypical presentations.

Laboratory Methods

Laboratory testing may be useful in cases with less typical clinical presentations, such as in people with suppressed immune systems who may have disseminated herpes zoster (defined as appearance of lesions outside the primary or adjacent dermatomes). Polymerase chain reaction (PCR) may also be useful for confirming cases of suspected zoster sine herpete.

Direct fluorescent antibody (DFA) and Tzanck smear are not recommended due to limited sensitivity. These methods had the advantage of providing a rapid turnaround time, but DFA is substantially less sensitive than PCR and Tzanck is not specific for varicella-zoster virus (VZV). Moreover, realtime PCR protocols can be completed within one day.

PCR can be used to detect VZV DNA rapidly and sensitively and is now widely available. The ideal samples are swabs of unroofed vesicular lesions and scabs from crusted lesions; viral DNA may also be detected in saliva during acute disease, but this sample is less reliable for herpes zoster than it is for varicella. Biopsy samples are also useful test samples in cases of disseminated disease.  It is also possible to use PCR to distinguish between wild-type and vaccine strains of VZV.

Serologic methods have limited use for laboratory confirmation of herpes zoster, and should be used only in the absence of suitable specimens for PCR testing.. Patients with herpes zoster may mount a transient IgM response and would be expected to mount a memory IgG response. However, a positive IgM ELISA result could be an indication of primary VZV infection, re-infection, or re-activation. Primary infection can be distinguished from reactivation or reinfection with VZV IgG avidity testing. High avidity IgG in the context of VZV IgM is indicative of a remote infection, Low avidity IgG indicates a primary infection. Measuring acute and convalescent sera also has limited value, since It is difficult to detect an increase in IgG for laboratory diagnosis of HZ. The majority of adults already exhibit very high titers of anti-VZV antibody at baseline.

In people with compromised immune systems, even when VZV infection is diagnosed by use of laboratory methods, it may be difficult to distinguish between varicella and disseminated herpes zoster by physical examination or serological testing. In these instances, a history of VZV exposure or of a rash that began with a dermatomal pattern, along with results of VZV antibody testing at or before the time of rash onset may help guide the diagnosis.

[6/9, 05:01] Harish Verma Canada: 

Hello Dr Anoop, 

I suggested use of controlled electric heating equipment like thermal cauterization to modify this technique. 

If patients feel scared of pain then there is no harm to treat them after some sedation.

You can modernise your technique by using operation theatre and some electric cauterization like.

[6/9, 05:02] Harish Verma Canada: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDLfdR3Yc8E

[6/9, 05:10] Harish Verma Canada: 

Modernization of Ayurveda techniques is possible if we will think modern.

Japan is using Robots for Shirodhara.

If we Indians will not modernise our ancient techniques and methods then foreigners will do it and get patents. 

Please have a look...

[6/9, 05:11] Harish Verma Canada: 

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1411351/

[6/9, 07:31] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey:

 *Great information you shared today, Dr. Harish Verma ji. Thank you indeed.*

[6/9, 08:23] Harish Verma Canada: 

Pranaam Pandey Sir !

[6/9, 08:29] Dr. Anoop Indoria:

 I shall try.

[6/9, 08:54] Janardan Hebbar Dr: 

Superb. 

Next chapter on Ayurveda will surely be written outside India.

[6/9, 09:04] Dr. D C Katoch sir:

Only interpretation can come from outside in fragmented manner. Holistic,  wholistic and wholesome understanding of Ayurveda is in the mind of India only. Ayurveda is based on natural laws, which can be interpreted in different ways but can not be changed- overruled and destroyed being shaswat, anaadi and anant. May be I am sentimental about this.

[6/9, 09:08] Dr. Seema Gupta, Chandigarh: 

Right sir

[6/9, 09:08] Dr Rupinder Kaur: right

[6/9, 09:14] Harish Verma Canada: 

Sir, you rightly wrote "Ayurveda is based on Natural laws". 

Today whole world is interested to know what are Laws of Nature ?

That is the reason they are attracted towards Ayurveda.

[6/9, 09:15] Dr Aakash Chhangole: 

Human touch cannot be replaced by robots. Shiro dhara done by robots or machine has no role as compared with humans. Results very drastically.

[6/9, 09:15] Dr Aakash Chhangole: 

Results vary drastically.

[6/9, 10:13] Dr. R S. Soni, Delhi:

 रुई से दग्ध करने पर तापमान शीघ्रता से नीचे आता है, जबकि यंत्र द्वारा किये जाने वाले दग्ध कर्म में यंत्र का ताप एक समान बना रहेगा जो संभवतः वांछित नहीं।

[6/9, 13:59] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

With cotton ball is it cautery ( दहन) or Heating ( उष्णीकरण) of herpes-affected part ?

[6/9, 14:00] shekhar singh MP: 

More than 100 pts. treated without any complications.
Few days ago, we have seen brain surgery done by African triblal people in jungle.

Where r u practicing, decides your modus operandi. May be you cant practice cotton ball cautery in Europe/USA.

[6/9, 14:01] shekhar singh MP: 

I think Agnikarma and Cauterization are not same all the time.
Agnikarma is wider. 

[6/9, 14:08] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

Is cotton ball intervention a agnikarma? Just  want to understand.

[6/9, 14:45] Dr. R S. Soni, Delhi:

सर ये सेक या स्वेदन तो नहीं लगता।🙏🙏
दग्ध कर्म में कंडे, गोदन्त, नख आदि से भी दग्ध हेतु कहा है जिसको अवांतर भेद से रुई द्वारा दग्ध भी तरीके में शामिल किया जा सकता है। यदि इसे heating या ऊषणीकरण माने तो ये यंत्र द्वारा भी सम्भव हो पायेगा जैसा डॉ हरीश जी ने प्रस्तावित किया था।

[6/9, 14:46] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

Its agnjkarm. 
संदेह क्यों है ?

[6/9, 16:34] Harish Verma Canada: 

'Quality Assurance' of any technique is always a continuous process.

[6/9, 16:38] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

I as understand this is Mridu Agnikarm. Or mildest Agnikarm. But it is not ushnikaran or heating. Because where patient is not with me and is away from me I suggested for ushnikaran or heating or ultraviolet or heating belts. But there is no curative effect. When I performed with cotton ball it is curative and complicationless. So at this extent I am clear that it not a fomentation or ushnikaran.

[6/9, 16:39] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

I will try to perform with quality assurance.

[6/9, 16:43] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

But as I feel that this is not a epidemic. In 15 year of my practice I performed near about 150 such agnikarm. So not feel such vast efforts for same.

[6/9, 17:13] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir: 

प्रत्यक्षे किं प्रमाणम् ।
कॉटनबाल दग्धानाम् एच जैडानाम् आशुशूलप्रशमनत्वात् ,
अपुनरुद्भवात् च यदाह वाग्भट्ट:

अग्नि: क्षारादपिश्रेष्ठ:तद्दग्धानाम् असंभवात् इति !!!

[6/9, 17:37] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

Pranam Gurudev. 
Good explanation.


[6/9, 17:48] Dr Surendra A Soni: 🙏💐🌹

[6/9, 18:10] Harish Verma Canada: 

Your performance is excellent I gave my inputs to improve further. 
Quality Assurance is a wider term 👇

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Quality_assurance

[6/9, 20:19] Dr. D C Katoch sir:

 Approximate clarification.


[6/9, 21:35] Dr. Anoop Indoria: 

Thanks Sir.






********************************************************************************

{Above presentation & discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp-discussion-group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India.} 

Presented by

Dr. Anoop Kumar Indoria
                               MD, PhD(K.C.)
Associate Professor 
Dept. of Kaya chikitsa
Government Ayurved College
Junagadh, Gujarat State, India.
Mobile numbers- 
+91 9426449115, +91 91061 77500

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor

Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

EMAIL: surendraasoni@gmail.com

Mobile No. +91 9408441150