[16/04 11:29 AM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
May I seek experts guidance on:
What is expected in Prakruti Parikshana under Dashvidha pariksha of patients?
It has been described in Vimanasthana.
Point of debate: Prakruti can not be evaluated in Patients
or
Prakruti can be only evaluated in Swastha
If so, shouldn't we consider Prakruti aspect before writing prescriptions to the patient?
[16/04 11:35 AM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
Prakriti can't be evaluated in first meeting. So you may write provisional Prakriti assessment till say 4-5 follow ups
[16/04 11:37 AM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
That's ok.
But point is whether or not to be evaluated in patients?
[16/04 11:44 AM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
Classically charak uses words vatala pittala...! The word Prakriti in its colloquial sense is used by vagbhata
[16/04 11:46 AM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
तस्य तस्य किल दोषस्याधिक्यात् सा सा दोषप्रकृति: "उच्यते" मनुष्याणाम् ।
[16/04 11:53 AM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
Vinay ji I think you are misinterpreting
[16/04 11:55 AM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
The sharir Manas dosha "adhikaran" is different from"Prakriti"adhikaran in ch vi
[16/04 11:57 AM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
The first adikaran is sequenced by anubandh anubandhya discussion. Then follows the Agni vichar.
[16/04 12 PM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
Vinayji you are senior and I don't think I need to explain you the adhikaran tantrayukti. I would humbly request you to have a relook at cha vi
[16/04 12:07 PM] Vinay Dongre Vd. Ay. Pth:
Paresh ji
Its a Gross classification in Roganik .
I think the question was asked in confused Mind in Prakriti and Vikriti .
[16/04 12:12 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
No confusion at all Sir.
Question is:
Whether we should evaluate Prakruti as mentioned in Dashvidha Parisha in PATIENTS?
Point of debate is:
Prakruti can be evaluated only in Swatha person.
[16/04 12:13 PM] VInAy Dongre Vd. Ay. Pth:
Your post Pankaj ji 
🏾
~~
That's ok.
But point is whether or not to be evaluated in patients?
[16/04 12:16 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
That's sub question to the previous answer by Bawadekar sir, where he suggested that Prakruti shall be evaluated in 4-5 follow ups.
[16/04 12:18 PM] Vinay dongre Vd. Ay. Pth:
Ok. I accept my mistake.
I missed the word In " Dashvidh pariksha " .
Sorry to Shriprasad / Paresh / Pankaj ji. 
🏽🏽
[16/04 12:21 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
Sir, it's discussion going on.
No Sorry please.
I am really keen on getting answer or statement on this.
I am stuck on this for some study in patients.
[16/04 12:23 PM] Paresh Dange Vd. AP:
Pankaj sir..
तस्मादातुरं परीक्षेत् प्रकृतितश्च विकृतितश्च.....
So i think... have to evaluate pt 's prakruti in aatur avastha
[16/04 12:26 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
That's what is my understanding also.
But there was a debate or difference of opinion on this.
That's why I need consensus.
[16/04 12:29 PM] Paresh Dange Vd. AP:
Firstly.. aacary mentioned 4 prakrutis...
1. शुक्रशोणितप्रकृति
2. कालगर्भाशयप्रकृति
3. मातुराहारविहारप्रकृति
4. महाभूतविकारप्रकृति
इससे गर्भप्रकृति निश्चित होगी... वातल पित्तल आदि..
जैसे बावडेकर सरने कहा पहले meeting में निश्चित नही कर सकेंगेे !
[16/04 12:33 PM] Paresh Dange Vd. AP:
च.वि.6/13 में कहा है --
सन्ति तु खलु वातला: पित्तला: श्लेष्मलाश्च अप्रकृतिस्थास्तु ते ज्ञेया: ।
[16/04 12:36 PM] Paresh Dange Vd. AP:
इं. 1 में बतायी प्रकृतियाँ -- कुलप्रसक्ता, जातिप्रसक्ता, देशानुपातिनी, कालानुपातिनी, वयानुपातिनी इन को पहली बार में जाना जा सकता है, किन्तु छठी प्रत्यात्मनियत प्रकृति पहली बार समझ आये ही ऐसा नही हो सकता, ऐसा मुझे लगता है ।
[16/04 12:43 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP: Agreed.
[16/04 12:47 PM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
जी परेशजी । मेरा मानना है की देश काल प्रकृति का अनुमान भी पहली meeting में होना मुश्किल होता है क्योंकि स्वाभाविक देश काल और अभ्याससात्म्य देश काल में अंतर होता हैं
[16/04 12:51 PM] Paresh Dange Vd. AP: Oh... okk sir
[16/04 12:54 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP: 
[16/04 2:17 PM] Vaidya Hrishikesh Mhtre Ay Pith:
Prakruti is NOT accessible in our opd/clinic.
We 'see' the patient who is a multi-layered entity of
1
janmakaalina dosha-sthiti
2
Saatmya
3
Nidaana sevana
4
Roga-kara dosha-sthiti
5
Upadrava
6
Roga-Sankara
7
Arishta
8
Mrutyu
This is progressively 'destructive' dosha-sthiti.
In these 8 layers , it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to assess PRAKRUTI.
More over, as per Ch Vi 6 ...
So called Dosha-Prakruti DOES NOT EXIST at all.
[16/04 2:19 PM] Vaidya Hrishikesh Mhtre Ay Pith:
For details of above thinking 
🏼
Just tap to listen ONLINE for FREE ...
प्रकृति A different view एक नई सोच एक बंडखोर विचार
[16/04 2:44 PM] pawan madan Dr:
Resp Katoch sir...
Need ur inputs regarding Prakriti pareekshana.
[16/04 2:45 PM] Vd. Devdatta Deshmukh AP:
1417
1419
100% सहमत
[16/04 2:54 PM] Vd. Chinmay Phadake AP:
[16/04 3:10 PM] Vd. Raghavendra Nadargi AP:
म्हेत्रे सर से सहमत हूँ... यही बात मैंने आदरणीय गाडगीळ सर से सूना हूँ ..| 
🏻
[16/04 3:11 PM] Vd. Raghavendra Nadargi AP: 2:17
[16/04 3:13 PM] Katoch sir:
Prakriti Parikshan is ideally required for adopting Prakriti- based lifestyle for prevention of diseases and promotion of health as well as for curbing the disease process with lifestyle interventions. Proper Prakriti parikshan of a person normally taken 4-6 hours and should be done in installements in 2-3 days to prevent interrogation fatigue or boredom of the patient and to ensure correct replies. Correct prakariti detection can be possible only with judicious interpretation and analysis of patient's replied.
[16/04 3:23 PM] Anil panse Vd. Ay. Pth:
शुक्रशोणित संयोगे यो भवेद्दोष उत्कटः|
प्रकृतिर्जायते तेन...|| सु. शा.
शुक्रासृग्गर्भिणीभोज्यचेष्टा
यःस्याद्दोषोधिकस्तेन प्रकृतिः सप्तधोदितः|| अ.हृ.शा. 3
So right from garbhavastha multiple factors are involved in determination of prakruti. Add to that points raised by Mhetre sir. The job is difficult but not impossible. Rigourpus case history taking may solve the problem.
[16/04 3:24 PM] Anil panse Vd. Ay. Pth:
Vd. Thombare sir has prepared a list of close to 500 questions about prakruti according to different parts of the body. Based on the answers of these the probable dosha also was mentioned against. I found that quite useful for practice. If i get a copy of that will post here.
[16/04 3:25 PM] Vd. Raghavendra Nadargi AP:
Ohh.. good. Thanks Sir 🏻🏻🏻
[16/04 3:34 PM] Prof gujjarwar ay pith:
Prakriti Pariksha is required in rugnavastha.
Because if particular prakriti patient is having particular same doshagat vikar.. in this condition the severity of the disease may be more and special and fast treatment is required otherwise patient may go in upadrava kar avastha (complicated condition ).
For example :
If Kapha prakriti patient having Prameha and if not treated in time or properly he may get Prameha pidaka avastha very fast and
In consideration with prakriti Pariksha... treatment can be planned properly to cure the disease fast , in time (yogya Kriya kale).
Prakriti is stable in normal person (swastha) and in rugnavastha also.
[16/04 3:56 PM] Vd. Ramesh Nanal Sir AP:
वैद्य पंकज शर्मा जी।दवाखाने मी व्यस्त रहा था,उत्तर मे विलंब हुवा।क्षमा !
आप का मूल प्रश्न था 'दशविध ......प्रकृति परीक्षण रोगी में करें ?'
मेरा उत्तर है ,हां, जब मुझे आवश्यक लगे तो मै जरूर करता हुं ।
रही बात आपकी आकांक्षाओंकी,
आप को बहोत बहोत आशीर्वाद!(वैसे भी आपने यह मौका दिया है,तो क्यूं छोडूं?)
इसी बहाने बडे अभ्यासक वैदयोंके मत भी देखने मिले ।आनंद हुवा ।
मत मतांतर जीवन्त बुद्धी के लक्षण होते हैं ।स्वागत करता हुं।
धन्यवाद।
[16/04 4:19 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
@ Panse sir
Sir 500 questions?????
Whether it's really feasible??
Would you please share available significant outcome out of that 500 questions evaluation.
[16/04 4:22 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
Dosha Prakruti Does NOT exist is the statement @ 14:17 HM sir
In that case which Prakruti Parikshana is expected in Dashvidha pariksha?
[16/04 4:24 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
It's really becoming more and more inquisitive as experts are sharing there views on very Fundamental yet highly applicable concept of Prakruti.
[16/04 4:27 PM] Pawanji Nidan NIA:
Nanal sir @ 15:56
"आवश्यक लगे तो" प्रकृति परीक्षण...
गुरुवर्य से अधिक स्पष्टीकरण का निवेदन है🏼
[16/04 4:28 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof. AP:
समपित्तानिलकफा केचिद्गर्भादि मानवा:
दृष्यन्ते वातला केचित् पित्तला: श्लेष्मलास्तथा
"तेषामनातुरा" पूर्वे वातलाद्या सदातुरा..
If we see keenly, most of the population by & large is disease free.
So can v say that most of the population has सम प्रकृति, with few variations of doshas within acceptable limits...
Very few hv एकान्तिक दोषज प्रकृति..., which can b easily revealed...
[16/04 4:32 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof. AP:
In practice also, do v really think of prakruti, while planning rx?
I think, at the most, we r concerned abt उष्ण तीक्ष्णत्व of the medicine, & whether our pt is pitta prakruti, & he will tolerate it or not...
Or to plan for some anupana.
Else i hvnt seen that some spl medicine or its dosage has bn planned, in view of prakruti of that individual..
[16/04 4:34 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof. AP:
Of course, i may b wrong...🏼
Pls enlighten...
[16/04 4:40 PM] M gopikrishnan Dr. Ay pith:
I support your thought ranjith sir, in clinics _ we grossly try to asses and advice medicines.
Might be it's wrong on grounds of Ayurveda practice.
[16/04 4:43 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
Sir, we can't say that kind of practice wrong. So that's ok.
That can be a method of practice.
Views are welcome in discussions.
[16/04 4:47 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
@ Ranjeet 16:32
What we see in clinics while prescribing medicines? Doshaja prakruti??
And if we can not assess Prakruti at all then why it has been indicated by Charaka in Aaturpariksha under Dashvidha pariksha?
[16/04 4:54 PM] pawan madan Dr:
My little understanding says....
Finding Prakriti means we want to find out basic makeup of the characters of a person.
In practice there are certain conditions in which nidaan is not possible as vyaadhi, here I find estimation of prakiti helps to make some principle to breakup the sampraapti and getting a disease free state for the person.
Although in practice it is too complicated to exactly know the basic DOSHA STHITI of a person at conception, which is eventually known as Prakriti but still we can reach somewhere near to this Dosha Sthiti.
Although 'somewhere near' is a very vague statement but practically it helps in deciding the line of treatment many times.
In some case as Katoch sir explained we need to evaluate extensive data to reach to conclusion.
This is not only finding ushn or sheet nature of a person, this is something beyond this.
This is something like decreasing the weight of a person even after allowing him to eat lot of sweets, as he has been found to have a predominantly vaataj dosha sthiti or prakriti.
Dr Katoch sir can explain better.
I am just sharing my experience of practice.
Pls guide whereever wrong.
[16/04 5:05 PM] Vd. Ramesh Nanal Sir AP:
पवन कुमारजी,
कभी व्याधींविपरीत,कभी हेतू विपरीत चिकित्सा देना काफी होता है।
कभी दूष्य ,कभी बल इत्यादि के अनुसार भी चिकित्सा देना पर्याप्त हो जाता है।इस प्रकार से आवश्यकता का विचार मै करता हुं ।
अभी इतनाही ।
[16/04 5:07 PM] Pawanji Nidan NIA: 🏼
[16/04 5:17 PM] hrishikesh mhtre Ay pith:
पंकज वांजरखेडकर सर ...
14.17(2.17pm) मेरी पोस्ट में ...
ये मैं नही कहता ,
किताबो में लिखा है यारो ...
Read again ... As per CH VI 6 , Dosha-Prakruti doesn't exit at all.
Read original CH VI 6
Concentrate on " ... ... "
1
वातप्रकृतयः केचित्, केचित् पि
"तच्चानुपपन्नं, "
कस्मात् कारणात्?
समवातपित्तश्लेष्माणं ह्यरोगमि
2
" न खलु सन्ति वातप्रकृतयः पित्तप्रकृतयः श्लेष्मप्रकृतयो
तस्य तस्य किल दोषस्याधिक्यात्
3
"तस्मान्नैताः प्रकृतयः सन्ति;
सन्ति तु खलु वातलाः पित्तलाः
ये मैं नही कहता ,
किताबो में लिखा है यारो ...
[16/04 5:22 PM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
बिल्कुल सही कहा म्हेत्रे जी । कोल्हटकर गुरुजी ने इस पर व्याख्यान भी दिया था
[16/04 5:24 PM] Vd. Ramesh Nanal Sir AP:
चिकित्सा करते समय रोगी प्रकृती परीक्षा शारंग. उक्त संक्षिप्त भी चल जाती,
स्वास्थ्य रक्षण उपाय बतान केे लिये प्रदीर्घ परीक्षा करनी पडती है।
इसमे बहोत कालावधी लग सकता है ।और व्यक्ती भी ज्ञापक होना आवश्यक होता है ।
देह प्रकृति विशेषअंक हमने 'मधू जीवन',हमारी पत्रिका से बनाया था ।
विषय बडा ही है ।
'कॅप्सूल' आयुर्वेद का खचित नही।मेरा मत है।
[16/04 5:25 PM] Vaidya Hrishikesh Mhtre Ay Pith:
Yes Bawadekar Sir ... I remember ... It was 10 day lecture series on prakruti by many experts ... And on last day "Punarvasu" style last lecture was on this CH VI 6 unique thinking ... It was amazing ...
Therefore ... ...
Our UG is THE Anil PAANASE
Our PG is D P Gadgil
&
Our PhD is Mahaguru Kolhatkar Sir 🏼🏼🏼
[16/04 5:29 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
Thanks for pointing it.
[16/04 5:32 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
Then what's Prakruti pariksha in Dashvidha?
Question comes to Square 1 again.
Please guide.
[16/04 5:35 PM] Vd. Ramesh Nanal Sir AP:
आप सभी कोल्हटकर जी के विद्वान विद्यार्थी हो।आनंद हुवा।
आप के गुरुजी का स्नेह मुझे भी अल्प काल मिला था ।
'आवरण 'विषय पर 'धर्म चैतन्य'मे ,हर महिने 1-2 दिन,4-5महिने मेरा व्याख्यान उन्होने ही आयोजित किया था ये मुझे याद है।
उत्तम कोटी के गुरुजी की याद आकर भावूक हो गया हुं ।
[16/04 5:41 PM] Dr. Pankaj B. khedkar AP:
Many Ayurved physicians practice on adherence of Prakruti in their clinics satisfactorily.
Shall we it's all WRONG only??
Or
Are there any difference of understandings??
As Nanal sir mentioned earlier @ 15:56
"Mata-matantar" as jivant buddhi lakshana.
[16/04 5:41 PM] hrishikesh mhtre Ay pith:
धन्वन्तरिम् प्रणम्यादौ
सद्भिषजो गुरून् अपि
माधवाय दिलीपाय
विजयायातुलाय च
दिवकरसमीराभ्याम्
अनिलाय च वन्दनम्
श्रीप्रसादप्रमाभ्याम् च
त्रिलोकाय च वन्दनम्
[16/04 6:06 PM] Katoch sir:
Divergent views are there from the group members about Prikriti parikshan and it's utility in clinical practice. Prakriti parikshan provides important clues for planning of treatment and lifestyle management. This we are practicing widely in our chronic patients and in persons needing preventive health guidance. My wife is a lifestyle counsellor with PG speciality work on Prakariti parikshan and has the copyright of a validated questionnaire. More than 3000 patients she has treated only with prakriti based lifestyle management. Someday, if I sit with you I will tell some very successful stories of her approach.
[16/04 6:06 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof. AP:
हृषी जी...'वाग्भट' ने तो प्रकृति बता दी है...
चरक क़ने भी वातला पित्तला के बाद...
दोषानुशयिता ह्येषां "देहप्रकृति"रुच्यते ऐसे कहा है...
तो कैसे जोडें इन सब तथ्यों को?
[16/04 6:07 PM] Ranjit Nimbalkar Prof.
AP:
Katoch sir🏼🏼
[16/04 6:08 PM] Katoch sir:
Divergent views are there from the group members about Prikriti parikshan and it's utility in clinical practice. Prakriti parikshan provides important clues for planning of treatment and lifestyle management. This we are practicing widely in our chronic patients and in persons needing preventive health guidance. My wife is a lifestyle counsellor with PG speciality work on Prakariti parikshan and has the copyright of a validated questionnaire. More than 3000 patients she has treated only with prakriti based lifestyle management. Someday, if I sit with you I will tell some very successful stories of her approach.
[16/04 6:09 PM] pawan madan Dr:
Katoch sir....
🏻🏻🏻🏻🏻
I have seen some case by Madam......✔✔
[16/04 6:10 PM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
Vaidya Vilas nanal used to participate in career counselling based on Prakriti parikshan. Currently my student is working on selection and counselling for sports career based on Prakriti. Soon she will be submitting her PhD work
[16/04 6:12 PM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
Of course that is only a part of her thesis. But the practice of selection is there since many years
[16/04 6:12 PM] Katoch sir:
Clinically prakriti analysis helps to understand the basic nature and framework of the individual and determine corresponding dos and don'ts.
[16/04 6:14 PM] Pawanji Nidan NIA:
Hrishikesh ji,
Do you use "Prakriti" in your practice?
[16/04 6:15 PM] Katoch sir:
One question, please tell me whether Kaphaj prakriti individual is more prone to get Kaphaj disease or more protected from Kaphsj disease?
[16/04 6:28 PM] venugopal Dr. Ay Pith:
Primarily, vague assessment of prakruti in some cases can be made by just observation on body language of the pt,the way pt details his symptoms,emotional status, way of behavior in consultation room etc, as far as my little observation concerned.
[16/04 6:28 PM] Vd. Ramesh Nanal Sir AP:
आज तक नही समझ पाया की संहिता को किताब कैसे कहें?
और आप्त वचन को किताब का कहना क्यों कहते हैं ।
ये अज्ञान-उद्दन्डता-उपरोध इत्यादि भाव अगर हैं,तो क्यों?
[16/04 6:35 PM] hrishikesh mhtre Ay pith:
@ माननीय कटोच सर
श्लेष्मलस्यापि
श्लेष्मप्रकोपणान्यासेवमानस्य
क्षिप्रं श्लेष्मा प्रकोपमापद्
न तथेतरौ दोषौ;
Kaphaj (shleshmala) individual is more prone to get Kaphaj disease and HENCE , NOT protected from Kaphaju disease.
[16/04 6:37 PM] pawan madan Dr:
Katoch sir...
As I understand...kaphaja prakriti peraon should be more prone to get kaphaja disorders...
[16/04 6:39 PM] hrishikesh mhtre Ay pith:
@ आदरणीय नानल सर
वो तो एक प्रसिद्ध हिंदी गीत कि पंक्ति है
आज संहिताये किताब रूप में उपलब्ध है
आपको गलत लगा हो तो क्षमा करे
अज्ञान हो सकता है
उद्दंडता व उपरोध कभी नही
संहिता मेरी university है
और वाग्भट भगवान 🏼
[16/04 6:42 PM] hrishikesh mhtre Ay pith:
@ रणजीतji और Pavankumarji
I CAN'T understand. Its my shortcoming.
Whatever I assess in my patient, it includes all the 6 layers , as I suppose.
There are certainly many apps pre-installed in my smartphone, but few of them I don't or I can't use or I don't know , how to use ...
[16/04 6:57 PM] Vaidya Pawan Kumarji NIA:
What 6 layers? Can you please explain?
[16/04 6:57 PM] Shriprasad Bavdekar Vd. AP:
जिसका कोई नहीं उसका तो खुदा है यारो।मैं नहीं कहता किताबों में लिखा है यारो ।। ऐसा गाना है
[16/04 6:57 PM] hrishikesh mhtre Ay pith:
I think ...
Whatever the patient we examine/assess in our opd/clinic, is 6-7-8 layered picture ...
Absolute assessment of blank canvas SamaVaataPittaShleshmanam is rare to see ...
Pre-painted single layer canvas is 'so called dosha/deha prakruti' , is to be assessed before acquisition of any personal saatmya ...
And again this assessment should be beyond and filtered from 6 obvious prakrutis described in CH Indriya 1 ...
Because vaatala person of Panjaaba region (deshanupaatini) Will be more strong than shleshmala person from konkan ...
Or vaatala person in young age will be stronger than shleshmala person in old age (vayonupatini)
So, it is practically NOT POSSIBLE to assess Prakruti in opd/clinic.
Whatever we assess, it is mixture of 6 layers. Some may claim this mixed picture as prakruti pareekshana.
6 layers🏼
Prakruti is NOT accessible in our opd/clinic.
We 'see' the patient who is a multi-layered entity of
1
janmakaalina dosha-sthiti
2
Saatmya
3
Nidaana sevana
4
Roga-kara dosha-sthiti
5
Upadrava
6
Roga-Sankara
7
Arishta
8
Mrutyu
This is progressively 'destructive' dosha-sthiti.
In these 8 layers , it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to assess PRAKRUTI.
More over, as per Ch Vi 6 ...
So called Dosha-Prakruti DOES NOT EXIST at all.
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Above discussion held on 'Ayurveda Peetha"(initiated by Prof. S.N. Ojha) a Famous Whatsapp groups of well known Vaidyas from all over the India.
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Compiled & edited by
Dr.Surendra A. Soni
M.D.,PhD (KC)
Associate Professor
Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa
Govt. Ayurveda College
Vadodara Gujarat.
Mobile No. +91 9408441150
surendraasoni@gmail.com
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