WhatsApp Discussion series:14- Hypothyroidism by Dr. Radheshyam Soni Dr. I.K. Parwani, Dr. D.C. Katoch Dr. Shekhar Sharma & others.

[28/05 7:59 AM] Parwani Sb. Indra Vdo: 

Respected All, Is there any positive effect of Tambool on endocrine glands ? Specially on hypothyroidism? Is there any research done that tambool is related with BMR ? Plz guide and oblige scientifically.

[28/05 8:37 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Dual role of betel leaf extract on thyroid function in male mice.

Panda S1, Kar A.

Author information

Abstract

The effects of betel leaf extract (0.10, 0.40, 0.80 and 2.0 g kg-1 day-1 for 15 days) on the alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations. lipid peroxidation (LPO) and on the activities of superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase (CAT) were investigated in male Swiss mice. Administration of betel leaf extract exhibited a dual role, depending on the different doses. While the lowest dose decreased thyroxine (T4) and increased serum triiodothyronine (T3) concentrations, reverse effects were observed at two higher doses. Higher doses also increased LPO with a concomitant decrease in SOD and CAT activities. However, with the lowest dose most of these effects were reversed. These findings suggest that betel leaf can be both stimulatory and inhibitory to thyroid function, particularly for T3 generation and lipid peroxidation in male mice, depending on the amount consumed.

PMID: 9990660 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[28/05 8:41 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

Tambul being overall "Ushna" and "Katu-vipaki".... acts on all shleshma disorders as saman pratyarabdha dravya.....

[28/05 9:55 AM] Dr. Radheshyam Soni:

 @ डॉ अनुपमा जी

विकारणाम् हि अकुशलो न जृह्यात कदाचन्।

न हि सर्व विकारणाम् नामतः ध्रुवो स्थिति।।

पर इस के लक्षणानुसार यह वात कफ वृद्ध हीन पित्त  की सन्निपातिक स्थिति है।

[28/05 11:03 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 [28/05 8:57 AM] Dr.Anupma Patra:

  please give suggestion about ayurvedic diagnosis of hypothyroidism, whenever there is no any swelling in thyroid.

Madam it seems that pathogenesis of hypothyroidism is as per "prakritisamasamaveta" pattern so it can be diagnosed as per signs and symptoms projected before swelling (actually swelling is not suitable term ... )or abnormal fat deposition. This accumulation may be term as vyaktavastha. Prior to this signs and symptoms of decreased jatharagni Dhatwagni and increased signs and symptoms of shleshma may be identified with careful history taking...

Additionally in females MC may give valuable clue in this context. I hope Dr. R S Soni will agree and add if anything left...!

[28/05 11:19 AM] Parwani Sb. Indra Vdo: 

As per my view, hypothyroidism is more common in female, it is condition of Dhatvagnimanshya  specially medadhatvagni and Asaratva of it. Divaswapn is one prime cause as observed.

[28/05 11:22 AM] Parwani Sb. Indra Vdo:

Dhatvagni mandhya.

Fluctuation of biological temperature may harm endocrine glands and their secretion. Is there any fluctuation due to Divaswapn?? Dr Soni sir plz 

[28/05 11:40 AM] Rupesh Vadher dr: 

मांसवह स्रोतो दृष्टि ... Bhuktvam ch swaptam diva ... 🏽 Parwani Sir

[28/05 11:41 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 Naturally....

Divaswapna increases shleshma that is sheet in nature....!

But it will not show effects in few days or weeks.... it will also expect the company of other nidana too...

Preexisting dosha dooshya may vary the clinical presentation...

[28/05 11:41 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Right Rupesh Sir

[28/05 11:52 AM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

I can't be satisfied with only reason - divaswapn* lead to hypothyroidism.

There may be lots of cause which lead to decreased jatharagni & dhatwagni in modern era

As most of thing consumed are not organic 

These are chemical based.

Other sources may be 

Smog

Radiation

Even by adding  iodised salt can't be successful in reducing thyroid disorders by 100% even in plain area.

Hence i am nit satisfied with iodine theory

[28/05 11:53 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: I mentioned that....

[28/05 11:54 AM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Janpadodhwansh is prevalent in this era not only in infectious diseases but also in noncommunicable lifestyle related disorders too.

It is any kind of aamvish which is causing dhatwagni kshaya,

I think so ,my guess

What is that exactly we don't know

Shodhan karm may be helpful in such conditions

[28/05 11:57 AM] Rupesh Vadher dr:

Shastra has mentioned diwaswap* and other ...

now practically vridha vaidya parampara (practically seen)

must be more ... 🏼

[28/05 11:57 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

Please don't compare janapadodhwansha with hypothyroidism.....

Cannot be justified....

Janapadodhwansha usually leads to Acute pathology...

Please don't make such kind of hypothesis....

Dr. Ankur.

[28/05 11:57 AM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

 May be helpful

Aampachan

F/ b vaman

F/ b swarn rasayan karm

Jatharagni  vardhak

Dhatwagni vardhak chikitisha

[28/05 11:58 AM] rupesh bhai dr: 

Naukasan may be helpful ? ??? In hypo

[28/05 12:00 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Ok sir

Even in lots of  CITY working women  has hypothyroidism while they don't get diwaswapn

[28/05 12:00 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Concept of Santarpan is to be looked....

[28/05 12:01 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

It may be due to lack of physical work which lead to reduced jatharagni & dhatwagni too

[28/05 12:01 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

[28/05 12:01 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

 City women work physically less then rural

 City women has less cardiac output then to rural ,

Hence lesser blood circulation lesser oxygenation to vital organs including thyroid too

Pranayayam helpful in thyroid disorders.

[28/05 12:05 PM] Katoch sir: 

Urban living and mechanistic & stressful lifestyle itself is the host of so many kaphdusti hetus. Hypothyroidism I think is Kaphudrek involving poshya Kapha.

[28/05 12:05 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

In Ayurveda

Vyayam is described as jatharagni vardhak.

Absolutely agreed with dinesh sir

[28/05 12:06 PM] rupesh bhai dr: 🏻🏻🏻 Agree Sir

[28/05 12:08 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

Kaf vridhi + any dushi vish lead to -----

These type of situation.

 Then lead to shrotoavrodh

Probably in thyroid glands or alter it's normal rhythm

[28/05 12:09 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Agree Katoch sir

[28/05 12:10 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

In modeen scientific management they only supplement thyroxine only for lifelong period as they still don't know what is the key factor in pathogenesis of hypothyroidism

[28/05 12:14 PM] Katoch sir: 

All kaphanashak aahar- vihar- mansik samveg could be applied in hypothyroidism and in it's preclinical stage, especially those specific kaphamedonashak dravyas, which are recommended in texts for galgand like Kanchanaar, Shilajeet, Agnimanth, Trikatu, Panchkol, Vidanga etc

[28/05 12:19 PM] Haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

In hypothyroidism, where TSH is elevated, which means there is failure of receptor cells, TSH is not utilized for further action, that's y it increases and T3 and T4 decreases, this condition is should be taken as avarana pathology, and exclusively should be treated by Radayana, specially Shilajit Rasayana.

[28/05 12:24 PM] Katoch sir:

 Kaphaudrek in hypothyroidism actually causes avarana of samana vayu to produce agnimandya related signs & symptoms at dhatus level. That is why Thyroxine of modern medicine has to be taken lifelong since it works on the receptors but not on the cause (kapha) suppressing the receptors. Whereas Ayurvedic approach is typically oriented towards aavrannash alongwith kaphnash.

[28/05 12:31 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 Dr. RS Soni has worked on hypothyroidism in his PG on Gomutra Haritaki....

He shared many time his success story. I request to him again to share his experience.....!

[28/05 12:31 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru:

 Ankur sir, Katoch Sir, Soni Sir,  nice concept,

Agnimandya, Ajeerna, formation of AMA, srotorodha, diwaswapna, shleshmala ahara everything should be considered..

Totally agree with considering Avarana in this aspect

[28/05 12:35 PM] Parwani Sb. Indra Vdo:

 In my view, Fluctuation of biological temperature may harm thyroid gland, if one get divaswapn, the temperature of body become ⬇ relatively and kapha increased and ?? Avaran takes place which resulting ⬇jatharagni and  dhatvagni. In CITY, women working in sedentary type of job with AC may have same pathogenesis i.e. in divaswapn

[28/05 12:37 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: 

Varanadi Kashayam, Punarnavadi Kashayam, Chandra Prabha Vati, Kanchanara Guggulu, Punarnava mandur, all have excellent results..

The results will be fortified when administered in the backdrop of Vamana and Virechana..

Gomutra Haritaki..yes sir..it's too good..I too have tried..

Dr RS Soni Sirs inputs will be helpful

[28/05 12:37 PM] Parwani Sb. Indra Vdo: 

However Santarpan  avastha is base here.

[28/05 12:41 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau:

 If all the symptoms of hypothyroidism r kaf predominant ..then can be use only trikatu or baheda after shodhan in hypothyroid pt?

I hv vitnessed various symptoms n signs in pts of hypothyroidsm..only obesity isnt prevalent in all

 Few present with fatigue

few show anaemia

few bradycardia 

few depression

Can we give above treatment as mentioned by various vaidyas in subclinical hypothyroidm?

[28/05 12:46 PM] Shekhar Sharma dr:

 Breathlessness can also be only symptom without wheezing of hypothyroidism

I have seen 2 Patients till with only this complain

[28/05 12:47 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau:

 Or suppose a pt came with syptoms of anaemia n fatigue..no obesity..bt accidently his tsh level is found high..should we treat him for pandu or for above mentioned kafaj vyadhi or hypothyroidsm?

Yes dr shekhar agree

[28/05 12:49 PM] Shekhr Sharma dr: 

Sub clinical level can be treated without thyroxin

[28/05 12:52 PM] Katoch sir: 

Sarvdaihik agnisaad with kaphudrek symptoms warrant the use of Kaphnashak Agnivardhak aushadhi irrespective of the level of TSH.

[28/05 12:52 PM] Shekhar Sharma dr: 

One patient had more than 150 TSH level 

In detailed history and examinations I found stress was the root cause

She was given medhya rasayana

Shirodhara

Counseling

Widthin 3 months TSH comes down below 5

Presently she is without eltroxin doing well 

Since 2008

[28/05 12:54 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: Shekhar sir

[28/05 12:55 PM] Katoch sir: 

Stress factor must be kept in mind in all diseases -'Vishado rogavardhananaam'. Destressing - mental relaxation brings down various harmone levels.

[28/05 12:56 PM] Parwani Sb. Indra Vdo: Dr.Dinesh sir

[28/05 12:56 PM] Sandip Verma  Dr:

 I also have same query if pt. is  not obese and no kaphaj lakshan but tsh is high.taking tab eltroxin 100 mg for six year age 55.female.

Symptom are body pain .weakness ,aneamia, dryness in body,tension etc.

How we can relate this pt with hypothrodism as no kaphaj symptom.

[28/05 12:56 PM] Shekhar Sharma dr: 

Its true 

In many conditions if patient is made relaxed and comfortable 

50 % complains resolve  it self 🏽🏽

[28/05 12:57 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau:

 Absolutly..rt dr shekhar..

bt depression is also a sign of hypothyroidsm.,.means depression caused hypothyroidsm or hypothyroidism induced depression..it must be categorically evaluated

[28/05 12:57 PM] Shekhr Sharma dr: Yes it is vise a  vise

[28/05 12:58 PM] Sandip Verma Dr: 

What should be treatment plan in this condition?treatment for aneamia and agnivardhak chikitsa?

[28/05 12:59 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau:

@Dr sandeep ji thats what I raised querry abt previously

[28/05 12:59 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: 

Stress, anxiety and depression are all the key points to be addressed..

Pandey sir I too treated some conditions in terms of kaphaja pandu

[28/05 12:59 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau: 

And request respected seniors to throw light on the situataion mentioned by me n dr sandeepji

[28/05 1:03 PM] Sandip Verma Dr:

 🏻🏻.can we treat hypothyrodism in two ways as kaphaj soth and kaphaj aneamia?

[28/05 1:06 PM] Vishal arora Pathankot Dr: 

Navayas lauh is the best example of agni vardhak and lauh kalp.

Punarnava mandoor is second one,

Where there is shoth and anaemia,  I use punarnava mandoor

Otherwise navayas lauh. 

In associated paittik symptoms like amlapitt or vidagdhajeerna,  use dhatri lauh.

[28/05 1:08 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 Pandeji...

We can use the trikatu etc if there is no preexisting Vidagdhajirn or Amlapitta pitta....

I personally used Jirak tray, Sunthi, Methidana just 5 herbs (2 to 6 gms BD) in many patients and it worked in almost all kind of signs and symptoms...

Patient history is key....

You are to identify the nidana and that must be restricted...

[28/05 1:10 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Yes Dr. Sandip

As per clinical presentation you may proceed...

This is speciality of Ayurveda that you will find the similarity in contents used in both condition...

[28/05 1:11 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Navayas loh

[28/05 1:13 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

We have the richest treasure of formulations in managing the Agni disorders....!

Dr. Vishal Ji

Shekhar Bose !

Thanks you got time for junior like me and others...

Thanks...�

[28/05 1:25 PM] deepmala kaumar: 

Please don't compare janapadodhwansha with hypothyroidism.....

Cannot be justified....

Janapadodhwansha usually leads to Acute pathology...

Please don't make such kind of hypothesis....

Dr. Ankur..

[28/05 1:26 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 Parwani Sir

Sandip Sir

Pandey Sir

Reference said�� is the key...

That's why  कायो नाम अग्नि तस्य चिकित्सा कायचिकित्सा  । ।

�

[28/05 1:30 PM] deepmala kaumar: 

@ soni boss....there is endemic conditions mentioned in modern medicine related to thyroid conditions comprising area / देश & water/ जल...e. g. Endemic goiter...just bcoz they dont have exacerbation of the condition... should not b completly discarded from the list of janpadopdhwansa....pls guide

[28/05 1:38 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

That was as per the basic theme of janapadodhwansha chapter  Described......!

Pathology in a specific area because of known etiological factors may not taken as janapadodhwansha. It's sudden changes in normal environment.

As per your concept USA has big problem of obesity...

And its related disorders but as per my understanding this is not a janapadodhwansha.

This is Santarpanaja condition...

Previously Acharyas had to do sambhasha about graamya aahara... Ch. Ch. 1

Dr. Deepmala Ji

[28/05 1:53 PM] Katoch sir: 

Dr Sandeep,  inspite of no apparent kaphaj 

symptoms but high TSH level,  Aavran of Samaana Vaat has to be treated with Kaphnashak Chikitsa. Sanjivani, Arogyavardhini, Trikatu+Triphla, Navayaslauh, Shilajatwadi Lauh may be beneficial to achieve  this objective. Symptoms of pain .weakness ,aneamia ,dryness in body,tension etc. in your post are avaranjanya correlated with hypothrodism.

[28/05 1:58 PM] Katoch sir:

 Gramya Aahar Vihar as mentioned in the chapter of Rasayan in Charak Samhita seems more appropriately causative as Viprakrisht Hetus of hypothyroidism, the exact aetiology  of which is not understood in modern medicine.

[28/05 2:05 PM] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat:

 *वायुना उपनीतेन वायुना समीपमानी तेन ।।*

Hypothyroidism mein environmental वायु ka koi concept hein kya ? Endemic ka type ko consider karne ka koi iraada, phir bhi hoti hein kya ?

Kaash Iodine ko visha gandha maan liya to, ho sakte. Phir bhi excessive iodine hein tho visha ka concept par le saken, idhar to nyunatama iodine hi rehti hein na Hypothyroidism ka cause par !?

सोचनीय का बात हैं।

कोई गलत प्रस्तुत किया तो माफ़ी मांगता हूँ सब वैद्य गणों से ।।

शु-क्रिया से शुक्रिया ।।

[28/05 2:09 PM] deepmala kaumar:

 Ji  Rangaprasad Sir...my query was also about only for udak & bhumi...not vayu & kaal.

 I got it... thank u so much @Katoch sir, Ranga Sir & Soni boss

[28/05 2:16 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Ranga Sir

[28/05 2:30 PM] Katoch sir:

 Dr Soni- what you would say: Gramya Aahar Vihar as mentioned in the chapter of Rasayan in Charak Samhita seems more appropriately causative as Viprakrisht Hetus of hypothyroidism, the exact aetiology  of which is not understood in modern medicine.

[28/05 2:41 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 Perfect Sir....

Resp. Katoch Sir !

it seems that Charak has mentioned the possibility of multisystemic pathologies in Chikitsasthan Rasayanpada because of compromised quality of , so they had to orgenise sambhasha or seminar food in that time and now the situation has crossed the limit because of most worst modified diet pattern. my small understanding.

Government should officially release the warning to the public that fast and junk food are injurious to health just like smoking etc.

[28/05 2:57 PM] shekhar singh MP: 

*जनपदोध्वंस*is applied only if Mortality is high. Have anyone heard  casualty due to abnormal Thyroid 

[28/05 3:09 PM] Katoch sir: 

Bad things need no advertisement and also no warning for people to prevent from consuming them. Insight is needed. Pathya is always difficult to swallow but Apathya is tasty and palatable. People believe in kshanik sukh without bothering much for 'anagat badha'.

[28/05 3:13 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Another important question is there that...

Is hypothyroidism is different from Sthoulya or not clinically....?

As I understand that it's quite different from Sthoulya/obesity.

We can draw such points collectively...

1.Medasa aavritta Agni in Sthoulya while not in hypothyroidism...

2. Over eating in Sthoulya while usually not in hypothyroidism...

3. ⬆sweating in Sthoulya while not In hypothyroidism..

4. Over production of heat while not in hypothyroidism.. like wise..

Is it justified ....?

[28/05 3:17 PM] Anupma Patra: 

 sir are all the so called junk food are dangerous for health ? Un knowingly we r taking so many types of virruddha ahara except junk food also. One very good thing coated by our acharya ,which may be useful for every body. I.e. vyayama. If any body do sufficient vyayama then he or she can digest any type of food i.e. viruddha, junk food , adhyasan etc. So it is most essential to promote the physical exercise. Perhaps Ramdev baba become so renowned due to effect of exercise than the effect of yoga in their patients.

[28/05 3:18 PM] ajay navale dr: 

we are thinking of Body/physiology/pathology as an outcome of numerous interconnecting chemical reactions,  if we think biomagnetic energy movement as one more basis of these actions,  our perspective might see a paradigm change,  like the eg given by Dr Shekhar just taking care of mana reduced the symptoms by 50%

[28/05 3:21 PM] Katoch sir:

 Sthaulya may be one of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. In that case Kaphanashak and Aavrannashak chikitsa will work on both. But Sthaulya Rog alone is entirely different from Hypothyroidism as Dr Soni has explained.

[28/05 3:23 PM] ajay navale dr: 

so what I am emphasising is,  and what has been already been stated by Dr Anupama,  look at signs of energy movement for prognosis as well as diagnosis rather than just chemical parameters

[28/05 3:30 PM] Sukhvir Verma KC: 

We use local basti in many diseases like PIVD,  osteoarthritis etc.

Can we make a plan for local basti at site of thyroid glan for Hypothyroidism. I think this will definitely help for rejuvenation of the gland.

Same in Yoga

Sarvaang aasan is advised in Hypothyroidism to increase the blood circulation

[28/05 3:33 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau: 

Well said dr sukhbeerji..

this is good food for thought and a constructive hypothesis of thyroid vasti..

bt then we hv to accept hypothyroidsm as a disease n not as per ayu avran or medvikriti or agnimandya

[28/05 3:33 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau: 

So if we accept that its due to thyroid then only concept of thyroid vasti will come into play

[28/05 3:34 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: 

Good concept Dr Sukhbir Soni sir

[28/05 3:39 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

I am very junior.

But my question is that 

If water is deficient in iodine then people don't get goitre?????

1.Does it affect only few people in a population???

2.Is Janadodwansh  applicable to mortality only not for morbidity???

3. After nuclear attack on Hiroshima ,  & bhopal gas tragedy so many genetical deformity occur in next to next generations  who survive should not be included in janpadodhwans.

4. If ground water is getting contaminated with radioactive substance & peoples get endocrinal / skin diseases then should it not be covered in janpadodhwans.

Janpadodhwans

,aspect should be contaminated

water

air

disha and kaal. In janpadodhwansh

Please don't take my points other wise.

If i am wrong then i accept it humbly

 [28/05 3:43 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau: 

Well said sukhbeer sir...

should we accept thyroid gland as per modern view..

or we just proceed on ayu system of diagnosis..

either we should rule out existence of thyroid gland in body ..or we must accept secretion of thyroxin n it effects n diseases related to it

[28/05 3:50 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

All industrial waste chemicals through sewer get mixed in rivers is it not causing diseases who consume such metals industrial waste contaminated water.

It is man made janpadodhwansh

[28/05 3:50 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

I just talked the basic theme of Acharya Charak...!

Earth quake, tornado, tsunami, flood , uneven changes in seasons etc are given by Acharya himself.

No question of juniority.. we all equally responding you and your thought....!

You can say we should revise our definition of Janapadodhwansha or further categorization may be done. Janapadodhwansha never denotes manmade problem.. as per the basic approach of Acharya...!  Acharya has given freedom to us to change according to Yuganurup sandarbha.

[28/05 3:52 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

 In acharya time peoples are satvik

But todays mostly peoples are tamsik

[28/05 3:54 PM] Sukhvir Verma KC:

 Everyone knows that Ayurveda is like encyclopedia. Here Janpadodhawansa indiactes about the etiology of all diseases./ disorders responsible for mortality and morbity. 

So peoples should be educated for धर्म  व अधर्म

[28/05 3:55 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: अधर्म ही मूल बताया गया है ।

[28/05 3:55 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

Trishna is root cause of all suffering & diseases

[28/05 3:56 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: As mentioned in Ayurveda.

[28/05 3:56 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: उपधा

[28/05 3:56 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: Desire

[28/05 3:56 PM] Sukhvir Verma J. KC:

पेड़  काटना प्रदूषण  फैलाना  इत्यादी  सब अधर्म  है।

[28/05 3:57 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: Yes sir

[28/05 3:57 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: True said

[28/05 3:57 PM] Sukhvir Verma J. KC:

Trishna is different thing dr ankur

[28/05 3:57 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: All hills are getting naked

[28/05 3:57 PM] Sukhvir Verma J. KC: Trishna with Dharma is good

[28/05 3:58 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: Rivers are getting diverted

[28/05 3:58 PM] Sukhvir Verma KC:

As said in Purusharth chatustaya. Dharma is first in all

[28/05 3:59 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

 Even in metro cities on the name of development all trees  are cut on highways, colonies etc.

This adharm lead to less rain

[28/05 3:59 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: Fall

[28/05 4:01 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

One time people afraid to cut peepal tree now none

[28/05 4:02 PM] Dr Anamika: 

Basic pathology is not exactly or anatomically at thyroid gland always....say iodine deficiency.... iodine binding factors or enzymes  deficiency....or pituitary hormones etc....So local therapy or basti is not helpful in these pathologies.....

We have to correct controlling and  metabolic Factors ...or physiology....

[28/05 4:03 PM] Sukhvir Verma KC:

This is only for Primary Hypothyroidism not for seconday

[28/05 4:07 PM] Dr Anamika:

 In my opinion ....ujjayi pranayam is best yoga practice for balancing thyroid function....

Someone having experience....??

[28/05 4:17 PM] Sukhvir Verma J. KC:

The thing which is good for society

[28/05 4:17 PM] Haresh Soni Dr. Parul:

Tishana and upadha....chickitsa sa vina upadham naishthiki....

[28/05 4:17 PM] Haresh Soni Dr. Parul:

So what may be the role of naishthiki chikitsa in recent era?

[28/05 4:18 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau:

Haresh sir..naishthiki chikitsa most confusing topic for me

[28/05 4:19 PM] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau:

I never understood the exact sense behind describing it

[28/05 4:20 PM] Haresh Soni Dr. Parul:

That's y its point of discussion, I think eminent personalities will clarify the concept and practical utility.

[28/05 4:20 PM] mukesh oropremi sir:

Chernobyl :- Man made Janapadodwansh.

[28/05 4:28 PM] Dr Anamika:

Ya....plz. help to understand....naishthiki chikitsa....

[28/05 4:28 PM] Dr Anamika: What exactly defines....

[28/05 4:32 PM] Haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

Important concept of Ayurveda is anagat badha pratishedha or vyadhi anutpattikar chikitsa. Naishthiki chikitsa is one of the important components of vyadhi anutpattikar chikitsa. It is clear here its discussion about preventive aspect. In this sense, trishna or upadha are unusual desires which lead to tamas and rajas dushti. Which ultimately lead to pragyaparadha. To satisfy unusual desire a person indulges into the acts which are not be done as per the guidelines given in sadvritta. So when sadvritta is not followed it becomes cause of karmaja vyadhis. And field of karmaj vyadhis as per Ayurved may present birth or next birth. Also some karmaj vyadhis of previous birth can be included. So to prevent karmaj vyadhis a person have to control the unusual desires. That we do with the help of achara  Rasayana and following of sadvritta. Therefore naishtki chikitsa has its preventive role on karmaj vyadhis of present birth as well as next birth.

That's what I understand. Please seniors guidance is still required.

[28/05 5:03 PM] Sukhvir Verma J. KC: So unusual desire word is good

[28/05 5:04 PM] Dr Anamika: 

So....upadha...is key to all physical and mental disorders....🏻

[28/05 5:04 PM] Dr Anamika: Key factor... sorry

[28/05 5:05 PM] Dr Anamika:

Great acharyas....& ayurveda....

[28/05 5:07 PM] Harish Verma Dr. Canada: 

Hashimoto's Disease is also another category of Thyroid Disorders, which leads to Hypothyroidism. Symptoms are as follow:

Fatigue and sluggishness

Increased sensitivity to cold

Constipation

Pale, dry skin

A puffy face

Hoarse voice

Unexplained weight gain 

Muscle aches, tenderness and stiffness

Pain and stiffness in your joints and swelling 

Muscle weakness

Excessive or prolonged menstrual bleeding (menorrhagia)

Depression

Due to time constraint I cannot write more, but I will contribute tomorrow about Ashwagandha and Amla should be contraindicated in Hypothyroidism. 

[28/05 5:08 PM] Haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

Maggie...most of us would have used as occasional breakfast. Maggie according to ayurveda can be categorized as paryushit and tamasik ahara. Therefore occasionally it can be used as breakfast considering the taste factor, but someome due to craze of taste uses Maggie as routine diet that becomes unusual desire. It may be included in habitual obsessios.

[28/05 5:13 PM] Harish Verma Dr. Canada:

 [Thyrotoxicosis following the use of ashwagandha].

[Article in Dutch]

van der Hooft CS1, Hoekstra A, Winter A, de Smet PA, Stricker BH.

Author information

Abstract

A 32-year-old healthy woman developed thyrotoxicosis while taking capsules that contained ashwagandha herbal extract for symptoms of chronic fatigue. She was not taking any other remedies or medications. During the first few weeks, she took the capsules only occasionally without any symptoms, but after increasing the dose, she experienced clinical symptoms indicative of thyrotoxicosis. This was confirmed by laboratory assessment. The symptoms resolved spontaneously after discontinuation of the ashwagandha capsules and laboratory values normalised. To our knowledge, this relationship has not been reported previously in humans. Data from animal studies, however, have suggested that ashwagandha can increase serum concentrations ofthyroid hormones. This case study suggests that thyrotoxicosis is a potentially serious side effect of ashwagandha.

[28/05 5:16 PM] Harish Verma Dr. Canada:
 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16355578

[28/05 5:17 PM] Sukhvir Verma KC: 

Not agreed with this single case study about thyrotoxicosis and ashwagandha. This may be in those who are prone to boarderline to thyrotoxicosis.

[28/05 5:26 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Haresh sir...

Naishthiki chikitsaa...good description.

While going down to find out the ultimate cause of the disease....this Upadhaa......comes out to be the reason of the disease in this life and poorvajanm krit karma is the second big reason.

Hope we can get benefited from this Naishthiki chikitsa to remove the causes.

निर्दिष्टम दैवशब्देन कर्म त्ल्यत पौर्वदैहिकम

हेतुतदपि कालेन रोगणाम उपलभय्ते

च श १/११३

उपधा हि परो हेतु दुखःदुखाअश्र्यप्रदाः

च श १/९५

[28/05 5:52 PM] Manoj Sharma Dr. RAU:

 इच्छाद्वेषात्मिकातृष्णासुखदुःखात् प्रवर्तते।

तृष्णा च पुनः कारणं सुखदुःखयोः।।

[28/05 5:54 PM] Anupma Patra: 

@ Haresh sir about thyrotoxicosis effect of aswagandha. According to my opinion actually there is no relationship between aswagandha and thyrotoxicosis. Her fatigueness may be due to indigestion or anaemia or anything else where aswagandha was not a appropriate treatment. So the root cause was neglected there. Gradually the pathogenesis may increased causing the symptom of thyrotoxicosis. Again the patient was using extract capsule ,which is different than ayurvedic principle. So sir in the name of evidence base study these are very dangerous for ayurveda. 

Can i know the cause why amla is contraindicated for hypothyroidism ?

[28/05 5:54 PM] Harish Verma Dr. Canada: 

Dr Sukhvir Ji, we are discussing science, I have tried to draw attention pf group towards those aspects of application of Ay Med. which were not touched by other respected members so far.

Your agreement or disagreement does not matter. We should learn from scientists of modern medicine. If even a single case has been observed then it should be brought in notice of group so that other members will keep in mind while applying the same medicine. This is how a complete literature on a drug will be compiled.

[28/05 5:57 PM] Sukhvir Verma J. KC: 

Definitely, this just my opinion that i am not agreed. I am not saying that ur wrong

[28/05 5:58 PM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

 I use Ashwagandha in thyrotoxicosis, particular in condition of palpitation.

Ashwagandha is given in treatment of hrida gata vata(palpitation)...

[28/05 5:59 PM] Sukhvir Verma KC: 

Second Ashwagandha is so common  medicine used by almost all the Ayurvedic doctors in good quantity also but this type of complications are not observed till date.

[28/05 6:02 PM] Dr Anamika: 

Yaa....rather ashwagandha ksheer paka is beneficial in thyrotoxicisis...

I think there must not be crude adhwagandha used....may be some extract...or chemically seprated active constituents...?,??

.

[28/05 6:09 PM] Harish Verma Dr. Canada: 

Dr Sukhbir, I think with your logic you can oppose the authors of above mentioned article, which is published on Pubmed. Please write to them. 

Thanks.

[28/05 6:15 PM] Bhargava Thakkar MD (Patan): 

Please change the word side effects of Ashvagandha use  side effects of Ashvagandha extract. 

[28/05 6:26 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

 If somebody get any observation regarding any medicine then we shall also observe same findings but if we don't get that ,we shall not consider that.

""""'Pratkyasha kim pramanm."""

[28/05 7:06 PM] Katoch sir:

 जनपदोद्धवंस को चरक संहिता  से निकालकर अगर आज के परिपेक्शय में समझने की कोशिश करें तो जो डा अंकुर ने   कहा है उस पर व्यापक दृष्टिकोण से विचार करना आवश्यक है। युगानुरूप हुए विना आयुर्वेद के सिद्धातों को वर्तमान में उसी रूप मे लागू करना उचित नहीं ।

[28/05 7:11 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

जी सर ।

मैंने ये निवेदन भी किया है ।

[28/05 7:14 PM] Katoch sir: 

[28/05 7:16 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Dr Harish ji

Thanks for sharing Ashvagandha induced thyrotoxicosis.

I ve heard about "Amritajirna" from Gurumukh. Excessiveness might be the one of the cause. Or some time बिल्ली के भाग्य का छींका गिरना भी हो जाता है ।

[28/05 7:16 PM] Katoch sir: 

Ayurved is in sutraroop. Contemporary understanding and relevance is required to be interpreted properly.

[28/05 7:17 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

But lifestyle induced ailments must not be considered as  Janapadodhwansha....!

[28/05 7:21 PM] Katoch sir:

 Yes. Only extrinsic environmental factors are the cause of Janapadodhwansha but lifestyle factors of the people definitely contribute.

[28/05 7:26 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Dinesh sir...

I also think.the same.

We usually see so many vuaadhis being sprouted at the same time in the same population even if.they are not infectious.

🏻

[28/05 7:28 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

Yes Sir...

न हि सर्वशरीराणि व्याधिक्षमत्वानि भवन्ति ।

[28/05 7:39 PM] sharad trivedi himachal:

Informative  Dr. Hareesh ji

[28/05 7:42 PM] santosh Chavhan dr: 

Regarding thyroid disorders. तेषां सदति दीप्तिभ्यं धातु वृद्धि क्षयोद्भव। ।।। धत्वग्निमंदय leads to बहु अबद्ध धातु वृद्धि and ध्वताग्निदीप्ति leads to धातु क्षय

 तीक्ष्ण वमन by Ikshwaku in Hypothyroidism... by giving Shodhananga Snehapana with dhanwantar Ghrita ( premeha Roga)  Pippali prayoga for dhatwagnimandya वाकेरि भाते चूर्ण commonly practiced in local health tradition of Maharashtra

 I heard जलकुम्भी क्षार in North India but never used

 Regarding pollution... pesticide.. it causes mainly DM and renal disease..

[28/05 8:00 PM] Samta Tomar Dr Jmngr:

 One of the main cause of janapadodhwansa is - when the government ( rajyashasana ) employees get corrupt..... is  the most relevant reoson for todays janapadodhwansa... especially in India..

[28/05 8:22 PM] Prof. Banwari lal Gaur: 

Dr samata ने सही कहा है  विमान 3/20 में यही बात कही है

[28/05 9:06 PM] Shantanu Das Prof KC:

 With experience on Thyroid.....

When menstrual cycle disturbs in Thyroid....I simply used SHILAA SINDUR...75 mg to 125 mg.....according to weight ...I got tremendous result....pl try it.....

[28/05 9:07 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

पिप्पली वर्धमान रसायन

[28/05 10:57 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru:

 

Really Dr Surendra Soni sir.. Best one in the business

Vardhamana Pippali

[28/05 10:58 PM] Sukhvir Verma KC: 

Agreed with all treatments said above abt hypothyroidism but results in all limited and like yapya type.

If anybody have any permanent treatment experience in hypothyroidism than plz share 

[28/05 11:02 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Dr Sukhvir

I ve shared to day 5 herbs formula...

PLease try that....

Problem is that patients just want to recovered by swallowing the drugs.... don't want to change life style....

[28/05 11:02 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Today

[28/05 11:07 PM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

 Vardhmana pippali is effective... V.pippali is indicated in Galaganda by sodhal.

[28/05 11:08 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

Please send reference image whenever possible Dr. Pankaj..

[28/05 11:09 PM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

I read in Bapalal' s adarsh nighatu..

[28/05 11:09 PM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

I will give ref tomorrow.

[28/05 11:17 PM] Bharat Padhar Vd: 

Vd.C.P shukla sir was treating the patient of hypothyroidism by Vidang tablet effectively. One research work on effect of Vidang on hypothyroidism was carried out at IPGT and RA and results were encouraging

I have also seen the good results of Vidang on hypothyroidism

Vidangadi lauha with lifestyle modification is also effective in initial stage of hypothyroidism. We can manage condition of hypothyroidism through above treatment without modern medicine

Vyayam nitya, jirnaashii, yav godhum bhojan is only best life style modification principal for hypothyroidism and same lifestyle diseases

[28/05 11:29 PM] Sukhvir Verma  KC: 

Great experience abt vidang sir in Hypothyroidism 

मेरे को तो लगता  है कि एक जन्म में  तो आयुर्वेद  का ज्ञान  प्राप्त  करना असम्भव  है। इतना विस्तृत विज्ञान। जहां  खोदो वहीं  समुद्र। 

[28/05 11:30 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Vidang has been mentioned as kalp Aushadh just like haritaki pippali etc.by charak

[28/05 11:32 PM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

 Navayas lauha-, varunadi kwath, arogya vardhini, trifala gugglu, kachnar guggulu, vardhaman pippali, gomutra haritaki--- these are common formulations which are effective in hypothyroidism..

[28/05 11:33 PM] Sukhvir Verma J. KC: 

लिखा तो सब कुछ  है बोस लेकिन समझना, प्रयोग करना व उसका परिणाम  ज्ञात होना भी कठिन  है।

[28/05 11:34 PM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

Hmm.... All formulations are not beneficial in all pts...

[28/05 11:36 PM] Bharat Padhar Vd:

Tasmat prakruti adin prikshya das tatvat ...kuryat chikitsitm pragyo n yogerev kevalam...

[28/05 11:37 PM] Bharat Padhar Vd:

Selection of drug depends on vikar prakruti, vikar Adhisthan and vikar smutthan...

[28/05 11:38 PM] Bharat Padhar Vd:

Red chilli powder stimulate the thyronine secretion

[28/05 11:43 PM] Gururaja Bose Dr: Shiva gutika 

[28/05 11:51 PM] raminder kor dr:

I prescribe vardhman pipli , thyrin of dr vashist , punarnava kwath in hypothyroidism

[29/05 8:48 AM] Katoch sir:

Try Arogyavardhini with triphla churna for 6 weeks in hypothyroidism case and then see yourself the result.

[29/05 10:07 AM] Dr. radheshyam Soni:

 सभी विद्वत जनों को,

देरी से उन्मुख होने के लिए क्षमाप्रार्थी हूँ।

हाइपो thyroidism की अवस्था में जो लक्षण आते हैं वो सर्वदैहिक और अलग अलग systems से सम्बंधित आते हैं। यदि उन पे दोषिक रूप से विचार करें तो वे मुख्यतः वात और कफ वृद्धि और पित्त क्षय जन्य ही प्रतीत होते है जो की निम्न प्रकार से हैँ

[29/05 10:12 AM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

 @ r s soni

[29/05 10:14 AM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

But i have doubt on xanthelasma -- (cholesterol deposit )

It should be mentioned as kafaz.

Why it is vaatz pittaz???

[29/05 10:14 AM] radheshyam soni dr: 

अब हीनपित्त वात कफ वृद्धि के लक्षणों में चरक का मत है

*हीनपित्तस्य तू श्लेष्मा मरुतेनोपसंहितः।

स्तंभमं शैत्यं च तोदं च जनयत्यवस्थितं।।

नखादिनां च शुक्लत्वं गात्र पारुष्यमेव् च।   

      च सू 17

[29/05 10:14 AM] radheshyam soni dr: 

जो की निम्न प्रकार से हाइपोथायरायडिज्म के लक्षणों में समाहित हैं xantelasma एक प्रकार के वर्ण विकार का द्योतक है, वर्ण का कार्य मूलतः पित्त से सम्बंधित है अतः इसे पित्तान्तर्गत लिया। वैसे ये कोई प्रधान लक्षण नही है इस रोग का।

मुख्यतः तोद, त्वक् पारुष्य, शोथ stiffness depresson anaemia और infertility जैसे लक्षण को देख कर ही शंका उत्पन्न होती है की रोगी hypo थीरोइडिस्म का हो सकता है

 सर्वप्रथम थकान का लक्षण ही आता है

 और फिर weight gain 

 गलगण्ड सभी में नहीं मिलता,

 क्रियाहीनता अधिक हो जाने पर ही hoarseness कोल्ड intolerance और myxedema के लक्षण आ पाते हैं।

और अक्शर रोगी को बिना कारण ही थोडा वेरिएशन tsh में आने पर ही थीरोक्सिन शुरू करवा दी जाती है, जो उसके endocrine सिस्टम को कालान्तर में बहुत बाधित कर देती है,

[29/05 10:28 AM] Bharat Padhar Vd: 

Hypothyroidism me Kaph pradhan evam svatantra dosh hota hai... aam pradhan pathological ghatak hota hai...evam pit tatha vaat ki partantra dusti hoti hai...isiliye chikitsa me bhi...Aam, Kaph ki pratham chikitsa karake baaki doshoko svasthan me lane ka pryaas karana chaahie. 

[29/05 10:30 AM] radheshyam soni dr: 

स्थोल्य से ये सर्वथा भिन्न है,  मेदोवृद्धि, अतिस्वेद, गात्र स्निग्धता, दौर्गन्धया, कृच्छ व्यवाय आदि हाइपोथायरायडिज्म से भिन्न है।

[29/05 10:30 AM] Bharat Padhar Vd: 

Symptom vaat, kaphaj ya pittaj hai vo dekhane se behatar ye hoga ki vo svatantra dosh dusti se hai..ya partantra..aur...vo dosh ki dustika Adhisthan kaha hai??

Drug of choice depends on dosh and it's vikar Adhisthan both

[29/05 10:34 AM] radheshyam soni dr: 

भारत जी, दोष दुष्टि का अधिष्ठान निज रोगों में सदैव हो दोष का मूल स्थान या आशय ही होता है, वाही से वो प्रसारवस्था में स्थानसंश्रित होकर रोगोत्पत्ति करता है।

[29/05 10:35 AM] Katoch sir: 

Sthaulya may be one of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. In that case Kaphanashak and Aavrannashak chikitsa will work on both. But Sthaulya Rog alone is entirely different aetiopatholovically from Hypothyroidism as explained above.

[29/05 10:35 AM] radheshyam soni dr: 

जब तक वह दोष दूष्य से संमूर्छित नहीं होता तब तक व्याधि की उत्पती संभव नहीं

[29/05 10:41 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

Alongwith said ... there is presence of relative endocrinal abnormalities in hypothyroidism....!

[29/05 10:45 AM] Bharat Padhar Vd:

 Doshoki utpati sthan mul Adhisthan ya Aashay hota hai..lekin prasar avasthama me baad vo kaha sthan samsrit hota hai us par chikitsa ki yojana nirbhar karati hai ..

Adhisthan k liye Aashay, dhatu, srotas, avayav, pranayatan etc...ka akalan karana chahie

[29/05 10:48 AM] radheshyam soni: 

और व्यपदेशस्तु भूयसा के सिद्धांत के अनुसार ये त्रिदोषज शोथ के निकट है, जिस सन्निपात में पित्त हीन, कफ वात वृद्ध हैं।

 शोथ से साम्य के लक्षण लगभग 70% से अधिक

[29/05 10:50 AM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

 @ Soni sir, vardhaman pippali is given in Gandamala not in galganda...

[29/05 10:50 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

Ok 

Thanks

[29/05 10:54 AM] radheshyam soni:

 डॉ भारत जी,

thesis करते समय ये सब जरूर होता है। क्योंकि बिना परीक्षक की संतुष्टि किये परीक्षा पास नहीं होती।

तो निश्चय ही ये सब निर्धारित कर ही योजना की गई है।

मैंने इस हेतु इस रोग में शोथ रोगाधिकार के 2 औषध का प्रयोग किया, 1 हरीतकी गोमूत्र के अनुपान से और 2, शिलाजतु वारा क्वाथ के अनुपान से

गोमूत्र हरीतकी के परिणाम अत्यंत सकारात्मक रहे लाक्षणिक और biochemical दोनों ही दृष्टि से।

 कुछ उदहारण पोस्ट करूँगा

 पूरी thesis पोस्ट करना संभव नहीं है, अतः क्षमा चाहूँगा।।

हाँ आप उदयपुर राजस्थान के राजकीय आयुर्वेद महाविद्यालय में इस thesis का अवलोकन कर सकते है

[29/05 11:01 AM] pawan madan Dr: 

सोनी सर जी 

Share करने के लिये आपका बहुत बहुत धन्यवाद.

🏻🏻

[29/05 11:05 AM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Was Gomutra haritaki  given post meal ???

At which doses??

Did  u titre if yes then how ?

Please tell

[29/05 11:11 AM] Nitu swrup Dr. Delhi: 

yes sir I m also agree with use of gomutra haritaki in case of hypothyroidism.

it gives symptomatic nd laboratory result too.

I had tried it many pts

[29/05 11:11 AM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Ayurveda describes Gomutra as a very holy Rasayana

(health tonic) that is capable of balancing all three dosha

(Vata, Pitta and Kapha). As per recent scientific research

findings it contains variety of many useful bio-active

substances like essential amino acids, enzymes, proteins,

vitamins, hormones and minerals. During various scientific

studies, it has shown very strong anti bacterial, anti viral,

immuno-stimulator and adaptogenic properties. It has an

ability to enhance original properties of respective

medicinal substance or formula with which it is processed.

Here powder of Haritaki (Terminalia chebula) is macerated

with Gomutra (Cow urine) in order to enhance its original

disease fighting activity for which it is intended to be used.

[29/05 11:18 AM] radheshyam soni dr: 

गोमूत्र हरीतकी भोजनोत्तर 3 gm मात्रा में अर्क गोमूत्र या उष्णोदक के अनुपान से, दिन में 2 बार

[29/05 11:20 AM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

Hypothyroidism pt has most of the symptoms which can be treated by gomutra

Shof-- inflammatory changes 

Udar rog aanah  --- constipation

Pandu --- aneamia

Aruchi

Siwtra rog most important quite common pathogenesis of both  vitiligo & hypothyroidism --- autoimmune disorder.

Kusth rog--- hypothyroidism pt has dry  thick skin.

[29/05 11:26 AM] Ajay MR Bngluru: 

After getting information here I have also tried gomutra haritaki along with shilajit and agnikumara rasa in with good symptomatic and lab results

[29/05 11:32 AM] Kapil kapoor:

Wonderful Radheyshyam Sir 

[29/05 11:41 AM] Mahendra Sharma ji:

बंधू गोमूत्र अर्क को गोमूत्र के विकल्प रूप में आजकल सुविधा की दृष्टि से प्रयोग किया जा रहा है क्या इस के तुलनात्मक परिणाम पर कोई प्रकाश डालना चाहेंगे

[29/05 11:47 AM] radheshyam soni dr: 

बंधू गोमूत्र अर्क को गोमूत्र के विकल्प रूप में आजकल सुविधा की दृष्टि से प्रयोग किया जा रहा है क्या इस के तुलनात्मक परिणाम पर कोई प्रकाश डालना चाहेंगे

सर चूँकि उपलब्धता और आहरण सौकर्य की स्थिति के कारण शुद्ध गोमूत्र की अपेक्षा अर्क का चयन करना पड़ा।

इस की कमी की पूर्ति हेतु हरीतकी में 7 भावना शुद्ध गोमूत्र की लगाई गई, ताकि औषध की गुणवत्ता में कोई कमी न रहे, अन्यथा शास्त्र तो हरीतकी चूर्ण को गोमूत्र के अनुपान से  लेने का ही निर्देश करता है।

[29/05 11:56 AM] Gururaja Bose Dr:

 Good and encouraging results, but what could be the management protocol for patients of thyroidectomy and purely dependent on external thyroxine.? Any studies?  

Please give any details if available.

[29/05 12:03 PM] radheshyam soni dr:

 मेरे विचार से इस हेतु ये अच्छा विकल्प है।

पर व्यक्तिशः परिणाम भिन्न हो सकते है, अतः युक्ति प्रयोग अपेक्षित है।

लक्षणों की भिन्नता के अनुसार औषध चयन किया जाना चाहिए, यदि अत्यधिक anaemia हो तो नवायस लौह या त्र्युषणादि लौह साथ में दें,।

आर्तव वह श्रोतो दुष्टि हो तो तदनुरूप औषध साथ में अवश्य दे।

तातपर्य यह है की सिद्ध साधित चिकित्सा या नुस्खे बाजी से बचे और स्व विवेक का प्रयोग अवश्य करें क्योंकि रोगी की आप स्वयं देख कर ही निर्णय ले सकते हैं।

1 बात जी कहना चाहूँगा की गर्भावस्था में इस औषध का प्रयोग न करें, इस अवस्था में हरीतकी और गोमूत्र दोनों ही निषिद्ध हैं।

[29/05 12:08 PM] radheshyam J. UDPR dr:

 गुरुराजा सर, अभी तक कोई thyroidectomy का कोई रोगी मेरे पास नहीं आया।

दूसरे मैं किसी कॉलेज या रिसर्च सेण्टर में नहीं हूँ,।

मेरे यहाँ गोमूत्र हरीतकी भी उपलब्ध नहीं, स्वयं ही निर्मित करता हूँ और रोगी भी अब तक जानकारों में ही आये है, सामान्य opd में नहीं।

अतः अभी इस के परिणामों को इन विविधताओं पर नहीं कस पाया हूँ।

[29/05 12:09 PM] Gururaja Bose Dr: Thank you ji

[29/05 4:08 PM] Anupma Patra: 

  thank u dr r.s.soni sir for very nice and informative presentation of ur work.

One question i want to ask . The disease hypothyroidism is having 70% simily with vatakapha sotha, than another 30 % may match with some other disease(xyz). Then what is the problem if we compare  hypothyroidism with vata kapha sotha and  xyz ?

सब ये सच रहे होंगे में आयुर्वेदिक नाम के पीछे क्यों पड़ी हूँ ?

 Actually there is need of that to give immediate effect of a disease and to give best cure of a disease. The aim of any pariksha is 

परिक्षस्तु खलु प्रयजनम प्रतिपत्ति ज्ञानम्। 

प्रतिपत्ति नाम यो विकार यथा प्रतिपत्तव्य तस्य तथानुष्ठान ज्ञानम्।(ch.vi.8/132).

Upto prasaravastha of a disease there is need to think about dosha dushya samurchana. But after that there is no need to go through that. Except only for such disease where there is no description in the text. I think the version न ही सर्व "विकारणाम नामतः ध्रुवो स्थिति " has been mentioned for few small diseases like xanthelesmia.  Most of our disease are in unexplored condition(ex. variety of pandu, variety of kaamala, 10 rupas of rajayakshma, urustambha, variety of sotha etc ) due to this verson only. 

[29/05 5:21 PM] radheshyam soni dr: 

आप सही हैं अनुपमा मैडम,

यदि व्याधि विनिश्चय हो जाये तो चिकित्सा सौकर्य संभव हो जाता है, और तद् रोगाधिकार की शास्त्रोक्त औषध भी रोगी को उपलब्ध कराई जा सकती है।

वैसे भी किसी रोग के सभी लक्षण रोगी में दिखाई दे तो रोग गंभीर माना जाता है, इस लिए इसे वात कफज शोथ कह सकते हैं, किन्तु यदि शोथ का प्रत्यात्म लक्षण यदि उपलब्ध नहीं हो तो फिर इसे शोथ क्यों माना जाये? 

और ये स्थिति प्रारम्भ में मिलती है, जब myxedema के लक्षण नहीं होते है, इसलिए इस को नाम देने की बात छोड़नी पड़ जाती है। और यही बात आचार्य भी कहते है।

 दूसरी बात नामकरण में ये दिक्कत है की मैं यदि कोई नाम दूँ तो कोई जरुरी नहीं की अन्य कोई उस से सहमत हो, क्योंकि मैं कोई आप्त नहीं।

जबकि मत वैभिन्य तो आप्त लोगों के काल में भी थे ही। इस लिए साम्य बिठा कर कार्य कर लेना सहज है बजाय नाम देने की अडिगता के

[29/05 5:29 PM] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Well said

 Naam me kya rakha h galib!!!!

[29/05 5:33 PM] Sanjay Lungareg Dr: 

दोषदूष्यनिदानानां विपरीतं हितं ध्रुवम्।

उक्तानुक्तान् गदान् सर्वान् सम्यग्युक्तं नियच्छति। च चि ३०/२९२

Nobody is perfect.

[29/05 6:42 PM] Anupma Patra:

  आप ने सही कहा डा. सोनी जी। 

If it is before myxedema then we cannot take as sotha but may come under pandu or chronic ajirna avastha or any thing else.  Most of the case come to us after prolonged suffering,  i never think that upto such situation it may within prasaravastha....!!!. 

If it come to sthanasamsraya avastha then there must ve some purvarupa lakshana of any disease. If in vyaktavastha definitely some diagnosis can be made.  

I think giving a appropriate diagnosis does not mean he is a aaptavyakti. Appropriate diagnosis means nobody deny to accept it. 

Actually whenever we are trying to go through modern diagnosis we r facing problem. If we change our way then no problem will arise. 

Ankur sir  naam mein to sabkuch tika hua hai....!!!! आखिर एलोपैथिक वाले स्पेसिफिक डायग्नोसिस के पीछे क्यों पड़े हैं.....? हमारे ऊपर तो ईश्वर की इतनी कृपा है की कुछ भी डायग्नोसिस करलें थोडीसी सोच बिठालें तो कुछ रिजल्ट मिलजाता है.....।

  

*********************************************************************

Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor

Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

EMAIL: surendraasoni@gmail.com

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