WhatsApp Discussion Series:16- Walking and its Ayurveda aspect by Dr. D.C. Katoch, Dr. Rangaprasad Bhat, Prof. Sanjay Lungare, Dr. Haresh Soni, Dr. Anupama Patra & Others

[02/06 9:01 AM] Katoch sir: 

Must listen to the videos☝🏼 about Walking benefits

[02/06 10:53 AM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Respected Katoch sir

Acharya Charak has also mentioned "nityago"(nitya gaman karane vala)  in context to Vajikaran.....!

Charak chikitsa 2.3/20

[02/06 2:29 PM] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU:

katoch sir, nice vedioclick. It is very essential to create awareness among people to remain healthy through  small act like this . 

Sir in sushrut samhita(anagata aavadha pratisedhaniya adhyaya) it is described more scientifically by dividing walk into two types ,normal walking and brisk walking with their indication and contraindications. Through this walk one can get the benefit of exercise also so it is a great thing. Thank u sir.

[02/06 6:14 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Anupama Ji 

Please give shloka reference....

[02/06 6:30 PM] Sanjay Lungareg Dr: 

सु चि २४/७९-८०

Three types

अध्व, अत्यधवा, चंक्रमण

[02/06 6:44 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Great Ayurveda  !

Concisely describes each & every aspect of life.

[02/06 6:47 PM] Rakesh Salve Vd. Parul: 

Very right description...

[02/06 6:53 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

In shosha chikitsa adhvashosha is responsible for mamsakshaya, whereas vyayama shosha is responsible for medakshaya, but reference quoted above signifies adhava sthaulya nashana which is majorly medovruddhi, please anyone can throw light...

[02/06 6:58 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

That's why Chankraman is called the best for normal healthy individual....!

[02/06 7:00 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

How to differentiate chankraman and adhva...?

[02/06 7:01 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

And what should be exact meaning of kutilagati paribhramana?

[02/06 7:02 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

There is a reference that "Shatam gachchhet" like wise not remembering exactly....

[02/06 7:03 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Probably just like "Kolhu ka bail.."...?

Not sure....

[02/06 7:11 PM] Rakesh Salve Vd. Parul: 

Patients should be educated regarding this..

[02/06 7:11 PM] Rakesh Salve Vd. Parul: 

Blinded by term Walk..walk..walk..!!

[02/06 7:18 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

चङ्क्रमणम् इति विहितगमनमात्रम् !

Arun Dutta

AH Su 19/23

@Haresh bhai

[02/06 7:19 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

Yes, Surendra Sirji, getting some idea...

[02/06 7:19 PM] Sanjay Lungareg Dr: 

I don't know whether right or wrong,

I think अध्व will be walking long distance in straight line without interrupted walking.

अध्वा दीर्घमार्गाटनं। सु उ ४१/१६ डल्हण 

And चंक्रमण means walking in zigzag direction, interrupted walking at each corner.

Rest along walking and no fix direction as said by SONI sir कोल्हु का बैल।

कुटिलगत्वा परिभ्रमणं।

भिन्नमत का स्वागत है।

[02/06 7:24 PM] Radheshyam Soni dr: 

पहले लोग पैदल ही लंबी दूरी तय कर जाते थे, साधनों के आभाव में। तो शीघ्र दूर तय करने हेतु वो तेज कदमों से चल कर जाते होंगे,उसे अध्व कह सकते है।

चंक्रमण जैसे बाग़ में टहलना

ऐसा भी माना जा सकता है

🏻

[02/06 7:27 PM] Chulet Sir Nia: 

Kutil gatya means movement like snake , not straight, during my char dham Yatra recently one of my friend told me to walk like snake and prevent exertion during kedarnath JI Yatra , may b or may not be

[02/06 7:27 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Yes Sir

[02/06 7:29 PM] Chulet Sir Nia: 

Adhwa means Giriraj JI Ki parikrama type 12 km or 22 km 1/2 or full

[02/06 7:32 PM] RK Chulet Sir NIA: 

Atyadhva means brij 84 kos type ???

[02/06 7:32 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

If adhva is causing mamsa kshaya and vyayama is causing medakshaya, then adhva is not considered as vyayama, and in sthaulya what should be advised...adhva chankramana or any other vyayama? Adhva responsible for reducing mamsa will be helpful in meda  reduction? Or weight loss resulted by mamsa kshaya we have to consider? Still I am confused.....

[02/06 7:44 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

We  can understand it like this, as respected Ramakant Sir is pointing that Vyaayam is a part of dinacharya, calculated as per strength while in "Adhwagaman" you cannot do anything else except 'Adhwa' by skipping all routine. That s why it is Shoshakrita.

[02/06 7:44 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

Long distance walking from village to village with weights over shoulders is what I had so far understood as adhva.

Chankramana is like a walking for pleasure starting from starting point and ending in the same starting point (like from home)...!

[02/06 7:45 PM] RK Chulet Sir Nia: Exactly

[02/06 7:49 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Haresh bhai

That's why there is difference in Adhwa Shosha and vyayam Shosha....!

[02/06 7:52 PM] Sanjay Lungareg Dr: 

@ haresh soni ji,@7:32

Please read commentary by डल्हण on सु उ ४१/२१

अध्वशोष व्यायामशोष के बाद आया है पर अतिदेश तन्त्रयुक्ति के आधार पर उसे व्यायामशोष के पहले समझना चाहीए।

This indicates अध्वशोष causes मेदक्षय not मांसक्षय।

[02/06 7:55 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

While climbing hilly areas or any temple's with 1008 steps etc , walking in a straight manner, one exerts much pressure to his quads muscles and to the spinal muscles (with stooping forward).

But when he walks in a zig zag manner, from left end to right end followed by right end to left end, one negates the gravitational force upon the central axis of the body.

By doing so, the necessity of the force exerted over the quads and the paravertebral musculature gets negated.

This being one reason, the other reason is - the increase in thoracic respiration too gets negated in zig zag walking over steps or uphill area.

When respiration is maintained normally, the oral breathing gets avoided there by preventing the dryness caused in the talugata Kloma area (controversial technical term). Need less to say, if Kloma in talu gets dried, increase in thirst, parigraha in pit of throat and precordium and hrddrava gets manifested.

More breathing through mouth means, the difference in partial pressure of O2 & CO2 takes place. Which further causes some agony in breathing process and results in tiredness due to hypoxia in tissues.

But, in Kutila gati procedure, all such above events happen in very minimal manner .

So no much vāta  vrddhi symptoms like malaise, anga pratyanga vedana occurs.

Quoting from personal experience and observation.

[02/06 8:02 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Excellent interpretation Sir..!

If anykind Anashan or starvation or calorie deficiency accompanied then tissue depletion and further occurrence of  emaciation etc as quoted by Sushrut...

[02/06 8:03 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

Marathon race - adhva . Because distance is more.

Pādās yātra - adhva . Where in distance is more once again.

Chankramana - distance is usually less, within the immediate range one one's house.

[02/06 8:04 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Perfect Ranga Sir !

[02/06 8:05 PM] Dr Ranga prsaad: 

8:02 post regarding -

Even that can be prevented to a much extent with one manoeuvre explained in yoga to protects one's amrta bindu.

And I have seen its physiological effect and felt myself while climbing 1028 steps of a temple located in hill.

[02/06 8:06 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

It's a mudrā. Not able to recollect it's name.

[02/06 8:08 PM] Sanjay Lungareg Dr: सही वर्णन Bhat sir ji,

🏻

[02/06 8:09 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

Bend the tongue backwards, so that the tip of the tongue touches the soft palate. Actually in mudrā practice tongue need to go further upwards. But upto soft palate level is sufficient to avoid parchy and thirsty tongue.

Need to close the mouth during this procedure.

When done, no tiredness (because udakavaha sroto mula is not getting dried). No palpitation, no anga Marda. In fact the person feels twice an  increase  in his physical stamina.⁉

To a scientific mind, think in terms of separating oropharynx from nasopharynx...

Some thing might be understood.

[02/06 8:12 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Yes Sir

I am also getting in something in mind like wise..

Not exactly getting....

Requesting Swasthavritta experts to help in this context...!

[02/06 8:13 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

A great discussion...

Thank U all......

Ranga Bhata sir..

Wonderful expplanation about zigzag climbing.

Thank.You...

[02/06 8:14 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Yes Pawanji

Great Ranga Guru !

[02/06 8:15 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

Vinamrata se, maangta hoon, great mat boliye Soni ji.

[02/06 8:16 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Idam n mam

[02/06 8:16 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

Astu Sarva nischitam  idam na

[02/06 8:19 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Need guidance from Ranga Sir and Sanjay Sir...

"Nityago" mentioned by charak should come under umbrella of "Chankraman" or "Adhwa" or in between both of them.

I in favour of more than "Chankraman"....!

[02/06 8:20 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

Nityamiti - chankramana sandarbhe !  

Walking if be considered as upameya to vāyu....!

I'll come with an explanation in next post to give timing to do upama between above two.

Gentle breeze is chankramana

Cyclone is adhva.

Gentle breeze nityam gives sukham.

Cyclone nityam gives duhkham.

[02/06 8:24 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

As I got your point that the term nitya refers the continuity /regularly with schedule......!

Thanks Ranga Sir...!

[02/06 8:26 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

Dhanyoham 

Deergha margam iti yatha Bandra Pradeshena aarambhita pārāyana Nasik puri paryantam deergham.....

Asti khila ?

[02/06 8:35 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: Straight ki Rju

[02/06 8:41 PM] Shekhar Sharma dr: 

I am agree with ranga sir regarding zigzag manner upstairs and down stairs

It is better than strait movement 

I personally experienced many times

I  climming the girnar in junagadh about twice a year 

It is about 10000 steps

Zigzag manner produced less tiredness and pain in the quad and back and recovery is smooth and fast 

I resume my  work from the very next day

🏽

[02/06 8:45 PM] Kapil kapoor Dr: 🏻 Bhat Sir

[02/06 8:45 PM] RK Chulet Sir Nia: Yes it's true

[02/06 8:46 PM] Shital Joshi Dr.: 

Very nice explanation Vd. Rangaprasad sir.

Actually the paths on hill r designed in such zigzag - snake like pattern to allow sufficient time to body to accommodate with the changing environments.

On any hill, we can observe paths in a circular fashion rather than in a straight way.

[02/06 8:49 PM] Shekhar Sharma dr: 

But in hilly areas specifically Himalayan range 

Because of high altitutet O2 saturation goes down so walking or climbing with rest is effective

Speciay After About 12000 ft when you climb specially in snow after every 5 steps you have to take 10 breath

Then saturation maintains and

maintaing hydration is also very important

[02/06 8:50 PM] Shital Joshi Dr.: 

covéring the entire hill like pradakshina.

[02/06 8:53 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

Adhva and vyayama have different effects....so in recent era according to Ayurveda walking is included in exercise or not ?

[02/06 8:53 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: 

☝

Good explanation Rangaprasad sir..

Chankramana has been mentioned to be advised before administering Vasti 

Ref Su.Chi.37/58

Naturally it should be a short relaxing walk within premises..

Adhwa gamana should be long distance one which causes considerable dhatu kshaya may be mamsa and meda leading to Vata prakopa..naturally it should be exhausting..

Vyayama is a part of dinacharya and should not be as tiredsome as adhwa gamana..

[02/06 8:58 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

Raghuram Sir, Mamsa or Meda? Only one.....please elaborate.... That's where I m stuck....

[02/06 9:00 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

@ haresh soni ji,@7:32

Please read commentary by डल्हण on सु उ ४१/२१

अध्वशोष व्यायामशोष के बाद आया है पर अतिदेश तन्त्रयुक्ति के आधार पर उसे व्यायामशोष के पहले समझना चाहीए।

This indicates अध्वशोष causes मेदक्षय not मांसक्षय।

Opinion of Sanjay sir....

[02/06 9:01 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: I am confused....

[02/06 9:03 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: 

@Haresh sir

I would consider Meda in Vyayama..as it is indicated..

In adhwagamana I would consider both mamsa and meda because to an extent adhwa will be a Vyayama and since the limitations for adhwa is not clear..anything beyond Vyayama limits would be adhwa..which might lead to involvement of mamsa kshaya too..of course on regular abhyasa..will further lead to Vata prakopa..symptoms like muscle cramps etc which need not be in Vyayama unless it is ativyayama..

Consider ativyayama too entering into the vicinity if adhwa..

In chankramana, 8 would not consider both..

[02/06 9:07 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: *Read 8 as 'I' in the last line

[02/06 9:07 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

Exactly..... Thank you sir...that's what I wanted to hear...because while a patient of sthaulya is advised for vihara, only walking is not sufficient, other exercises are also to be included as per requirements and rogibala.

Thanks Raghuram Sir

[02/06 9:10 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: 

@Soni Sir,

Welcome sir

You are spot on..

The nature, quality and quantity of exercise should be elaborated to the patient..in conditions like sthaulya..

Roga and rogi Bala is definitely the key

[02/06 9:11 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: I meant @ Haresh Soni sir☝☝

[02/06 9:17 PM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

If walking increase bala then it is Vyayama..

[02/06 9:19 PM] Raghuram Dr. Banguluru: 

@Pankaj sir

If walking decreases Bala it is adhwagamana

[02/06 9:24 PM] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

शरीरचेष्टा या चेष्टा स्थैयाथाँ बलवधिँनी।

देह व्यायाम संख्याता मात्रयां तां समाचरेत्।।

स्थैयाथाँ- means niether decrease weight nor increase weight ??

[02/06 9:24 PM] Shantanu Das Prof KC: 

I think walking hv both effect....both mamsa nd meda kshya....,but with a std weight if walking is continue as usual then weight is not much changed,but if it is over weight then walking effect clearly shows....means weight is reduced....why it is happening.....?

[02/06 9:56 PM] Govind Parik NIA: 

Chankraman adhav atyadhva v vyayam me meri drishti SE yah bhed h ki agar kisi target vishesh ko dhyan me nhi rakhte hue agar walk kiya jave to yah chankraman h yatha ghar SE nikle v bina kisi specific way ke ghoom kar ghar AA Gaye yha par mind par target tak pahuchne ka jor nhi h. Vhi adhv me aapka gantavya nishchit hota h jise nishchit samay v nishchit Marg SE taya karne ka maansik jor rhta h. Atyadhva me apne sharirik Bala SE bhi adhik adhav rhta h yha sharirik v mana dono ko atyanta kashta rhta h. Vyayam mana ko abhishta ya priya lagne vaala sharirik shram h yha par mana dukhi nhi rhta h jabki adhva me maansik kashta rhta h.yadyapi chankraman me bhi maansik kashta nhi rhta h parntu yha uddeshya vihin hota h. Jabki vyayam vishishta Bala prapti ke nimmita soddashye hota h.

Vyayam ki paribhasha me stharya SE abhipraya sharirik v mana ki sthirta SE Lena chahiye sharirik sthirta ytha karya karne me sharir dige nhi tatha maansik sthirta yatha mana me Sankat  aane par bhi dhairya Bana rhe.  agar sharirik v mana dono me sthirta h to oja rupi Bala ki abhivrridhi hogi v sharir vyadhiyo ke prti bhi sthir rhega.

[02/06 10:09 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Dr. Govind Ji

[02/06 10:45 PM] Katoch sir: 

I think the terms Chankraman, Gaman, Adhva and Atyadhva are meant to denote specific walking type in accordance with the speed, purpose and time relation with meals. Chankraman means stroll (slow easy walking usually after meals, Gaman means normal walking at time other than after meals, Adhva means occasional prolonged walking, Atyadhva means frequent or regular prolonged walking without caring for meals time and leading to Shosh. Welcome any comments .

[02/06 10:46 PM] Katoch sir: Gaman may be part or equivalent to vyayaam.

[02/06 10:49 PM] Rameshwar Rao Rane Mu: 

nowdays people travel long distance on daily basis over a long period through vehicle also should be taken as a hetu of adhwashosh

[02/06 10:54 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Katoch sir

It seems that results obtained by the body after Adhwa Atyadhwa or Chankraman are more significant clinically to decide the specific type. We can say it's an individual as well as physician oriented observation.

[02/06 10:55 PM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

Exactly Katoch Sir, when a patient of sthaulya is advised for walking, it should come under category of Gamana itself. If it will be category of adhva then patient may loose weight due to mamsa kshaya, his or her anthropometric measurements of upper arms may reduce in size but meda sanchay sthanas may remain same. That's what I wanted to convey. Still any suggestions are welcome.

[02/06 10:57 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Dr. Rameshwar Ji

I think travelling on vehicle is totally different thing and it comes under "yaanaayan"". That has been categorized a Nidan of pleehodar.

Experts may guide better.

[02/06 10:59 PM] Katoch sir: 

More than what Dr Sonidvaye have said is that Adhva and Atyaadhva are hetus of vaatroga, whereas Gaman and Chankraman are not but recommended for health promotion.

[02/06 10:59 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

सु.उत्तरतंत्र शोष अध्याय ४१/२१

अद्यतन विचारित अध्व-शोषि, व्यायाम शोषि निमित्त विषयानी स्पष्टमेव ठीका मुखान्तरं विश्लेषणं सन्ति ।। 

[02/06 11:00 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: Yes Sir

[02/06 11:04 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

तथापि कतिपय अध्याय - अध्वस्य सन्दर्भे (प्रायश: शोषमेव अधिकारं) शुष्क शब्द प्रयोग - क्लोमस्य पाठनं अस्ति ।। तालु शोषणमेव ग्राहितुम् इत्यर्थं ।। 

[02/06 11:05 PM] Katoch sir: 

Excessive Vyayaam in the form of prolonged walking is Aďhva. Therefore the effect in Adhvashoshi and Vyayaamshoshi is same.

[02/06 11:06 PM] Rameshwar Rao Rane Mu: 

Vaidyaraj datarshastri inventor of panchbhautik chikitsa had done a research on it . And he used to treat pts taking consideration of this hetu . 

[02/06 11:09 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

सोनी महोदय वयं मुद्रा शिवेन उक्तव्यम् - secret सन्ति।। अस्य recollect कर्तुम् न सक्नोमी।।

यदि स्मरणीय चेत निश्चितम् वक्तुमिच्छामि ।।

[02/06 11:10 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

अत्युत्तमम् !

श्रीमन् रङ्गाप्रसादमहाभागः  ।

[02/06 11:11 PM] Katoch sir: 

Chankraman is basically for relaxation and it is not tiring. Normally it is done after meals or by old,  diseased, debilitated people and pregnant & postpartum women.

[02/06 11:12 PM] Dr Surendra A. Soni: धन्योsहम् ।

[02/06 11:23 PM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

Yes Katoch mahodaya. 

[02/06 11:26 PM] Hardik Chandra Kalal Vd: 

In Charak samhita describe limitation of vyayam as any type of exercise , that 

स्वेदागम:

श्वास व्रुद्धी 

ह्रदय उपरोध 

Here, always  we should  advice any type of vyaym with these limitation to the patients.

[03/06 1:18 AM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

you are a real guru Rangaprasad sirji....koti  koti  pranam...

[03/06 1:21 AM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

 ऐसा मत बोलिये हरेश सोनी जी ।।

में एक मामूली का वैद्य ही हूँ ।।

गुरु का अर्हता अब तक नहीं हैं मेरे पास ।।

राम राम ।।

[03/06 1:27 AM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

अपबाहुके - फलदायक व्यायाम पध्दति क्रम ।।

[03/06 1:27 AM] haresh Soni Dr. Parul: 

थोडा भी सीखने मिले किसी से वह गुरु से कम नहीं होता, आप से बहुत कुछ सीखते है, मेरे लिये आप गुरुवर है.

[03/06 1:28 AM] Dr Ranga prasad: 

नारायण नारायण ।।

सर्वं नारायनस्य समर्पयामि ।।

[03/06 10:40AM] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU:

 
Good morning .
According to my opinion these term adhva, atyardhva and chankramana should consider differently in different indivisual in treatment point of view. 
Chankramana (नाती देह पीडकरं भवेत् ,mild exertional walking)

(result-आयु बल मेधा अग्निप्रद इन्द्रिय बोधनम)
is needed for healthy people to maintain their health. Also advised 100 step after eating by every indivisual for proper digestion.
Adhva is a exertional walking where sweating should come( can be considered as a type of vyayama) (result-वर्ण कफ  sthaulya सौकुमार्य विनाशन),and after that one should stop walking and take rest. It should be advised to the sthula,kaphadhikya condition, pramehi etc. Atyardhva(continuous walking even after sweating and urdhwa swasa) (result-जरा दौवल्य कृत) should not prescribed to anybody it has no health benefit, it may create shosha vyadhi (i think both mamsa and medakshyay may occur). Long distance with bike may comes under pravaata sevan which is a etiology of vaat vyadhi.

  

   

*********************************************************************

Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor

Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

EMAIL: surendraasoni@gmail.com

Mobile No. +91 9408441150