WDS 63: USE OF ASAV-ARISHTA FORMULATIONS by Dr. Shashi Jindal, Dr. Janardan Hebber, Dr. D. C. Katoch, Dr. Sanjay Chhajed, Dr Pawan Madan, Vd. V. B. Pandey, Dr. Rajaneesh Pathak, Dr. Ankur Sharma, Dr. Ravi Prajapati, Dr. Pratibha Navani,, DrPriy-ranjan Tiwari, Dr. Shekhar Singh Rathore & others.

[11/26, 10:44] Dr Rajanish Pathak: 

What can we do in this type of case where severity is high 

Patient has vomiting and severe epigastric pain since 1yr 

Recurrent in nature, within 15-20 days all symptoms recurrently.

[11/26, 10:49] Dr Rajanish Pathak: 

On USG

Hepatomegaly (liver size 140mm) 

Cholelithiasis (multiple stone 15.5 mm size)

[11/26, 11:15] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Very interesting and chal ling case as per Ayu.diagnosis Saam pitta in dhatugat vayavastha due to continue vomiting oral drugs would be minimum Sut Shekhar Ras Swarn yoga followed by Ussharassava 30ml. Madhu tailik Basti at least for 10 to15 days this will be my advice.

[11/26, 11:17] Dr. Pradip Mohan Sharma: 

Serum Bilirubin??

[11/26, 12:12] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

👍🏼🙏🏼sir can he be saved from surgery with this tt protocol.🙏🏼

[11/26, 12:25] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Pt. will be cured as per my knowledge. Years before one lady age above 70 raised serum bilirubin due to stone in GBD I had treated with same theory and result was satisfactory.

[11/26, 13:44] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

Sir plz ..... explain the concept behind the selection of ushirasavam in this case....🙏🙏🙏

[11/26, 14:20] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

What is cause of hepatomegaly ?  Epigastric pain or belliary colic ? Bloating ? Burning ? Fever etc ?

Food habits ?  Past history ? Alcoholism ?

Vaidya pandey has suggested good Rx if pt. can afford.

Additionally gud-haritaki-pippali may be given on milk diet. 

GB stone will need surgical removable.

[11/26, 14:26] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Usshirassava it is pitta shamak and it is the only med which prevents mixing of pitta with Blood.

[11/26, 14:28] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

thanks sir !

[11/26, 14:36] Dr Vinod Mittar, Bhiwani: 

Shatavari chinnruh kashyam

Kokilaksh kashyam

Mahamanjishta ghan vati

Kaishore guggul 

Are the best options

[11/26, 14:36] Dr Ankur Sharma, Delhi: 

Greater the size of gb calculus lesser the probability of getting cbd obstruction with gb calculus (later cholangitis & bile stone  induced pancreatitis)

Cholecystectomy is best and safer treatment to avoid pancreatitis like complications.

[11/26, 14:37] Dr Ankur Sharma, Delhi: 

Let first do serum amylase lipase.

[11/26, 14:37] Dr Ankur Sharma, Delhi: 

Cect abdomen

Vomiting content 

Acidic or bitter?

color

Odour

[11/26, 15:21] Dr Rajanish Pathak: 

Yeah sir 

I have refer in surgery Opd.....Ayurveda Surgeon also refer him for surgery.

[11/26, 15:24] Dr Rajanish Pathak: 

Vomitus bitter 

Age 33

Occationally epigastric and some time pain in right hypochondrium and right lumber pain.

[11/26, 15:27] Dr Rajanish Pathak: 

Bilirubin 2.5 total 

But serum amylase not advised 

Alkaline phosphatase 160IU/dl

[11/26, 15:28] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

Murphy's sign is an indication of gallbladder inflammation. and may also indicate inflammation of the liver. there are several ways to check for Murphy's sign. you may hook your fingers or thumb around the right costal margin and ask the patient to take a deep.

[11/26, 15:31] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

Acute on chronic cholecystitis with obstruction in biliary tract causes these features. If not treated in acute condition may lead to rupture of gall bladder and peritonitis with high mortality rate .

[11/26, 15:38] Dr Darshana Vyas, Vadodara: 👌

[11/26, 15:38] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: 

D/D

Acute gastritis 

Acute cholecystitis 

Gi obstruction depending on color of vomtus

Ch cholecystitis

[11/26, 15:42] Dr Ashwini Kumar Sood, Ambala: I

nfectious hepatitis 

Obstructive cholecystitis

All depends on examination and histordy.

[11/26, 15:49] Dr Surendra A Soni: 🙏🌹

[11/26, 17:16] Dr Shekhar Singh Rathoud: 

Some 20 - 22 years ago, i was prescribed Usheeraasava and chandanasava with other pittshamak drugs for Peptic Ulcer. It aggravated Hyperacidity.

Latter, my senior teacher said it's not wise to prescribe Aasav/Arishta in such conditions.

your experience seems different ??

[11/26, 17:24] Dr Harsh Kishore: 

Yadi aasav aur arishta shukta paak ho gaya ho to hyperacidity increase kar sakte hai. Anyatha aisa hone ki sambhaavna nahi hai.... Sandu company ka bhunimbadi kadha is a very good medicine for hyperacidity but once its batch was not prepared well and it increased acidity in many patients... 🙏🙏🙏

[11/26, 17:25] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

My teacher thought me simple one line solutionअसफल चिकित्सा का मूल निदान व औषधि चयन में भूल।

[11/26, 17:27] Dr Ankur Sharma, Delhi: 

Aashav aaristha are amla, ras pradhan 

Agni mahabhoot ++++

why should one utilize it when there are medicated ghirt 

Tikt kasaya madhur ghirt are described for pattik diseases.

[11/26, 17:30] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

asavarishtas r amla vipak ?? i don't think ??

[11/26, 17:32] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Please elaborate this topic that is role of aassavs and aristha.For me it's unique in patient compliance.

[11/26, 18:13] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

aasav arishta are made with addition of madhur drvyas like honey gur sugars etc. these are sweet in taste, if they r sour that means they should not be used, as they have become shukt,vinegar.

[11/26, 18:19] Dr Shekhar Singh Rathoud: 

Aasavarishta are sandhan kalpana and contains self generated Alcohol. 

Alcoholic dravya must be Amla Vipaki ❓

[11/26, 18:24] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

asavarishtas may be katu or madhur vipak according to dravyas used.

[11/26, 18:24] Janardan Hebbar Dr: 

Need not. Most of them are katu vipaki.

[11/26, 18:25] Janardan Hebbar Dr: 

Only shukta sandhana can lead to Amla vipaka.

[11/26, 18:43] Dr Priy-ranjan Tiwari, Haridwar: 

Very true Dr shekhar ji !

[11/26, 18:46] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏🙏🙏I had the same confusion sir........thats why i put the question......as per my little understanding...i avoid use of asava/ arista in purely Pitta diseases or pitta dominant prakruti patients........i uses it in K, KV or V dominant ds......... mainly uses in that pt. Who has mucus or sama mala in there faeces or urination.🙏🙏

[11/26, 18:48] Dr Priy-ranjan Tiwari, Haridwar: ☑👏

[11/26, 18:48] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

Although..... Ushirasavam, Chandanasavam, Sarivadyasavam.......are somewhat little exception.

[11/26, 18:49] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 🙏🙏🙏

[11/26, 18:50] Dr Narinder Pal, Jammu: 

cholycystitis & cholelithiasis comes under the spectrum of gulma and antrviddridhi..

most of the vaidya thinks that due to presence of stone in gall bladder it should be consider as pittashmari..but this is wrong.

cholecystis pain if presented presented with jwara daha moha chardi etc then it shld be considered as pittaj gulma or viddradhi. DOC will be trayantyadi kashyam, sootshekhar rasa..

if cholecystitis present with pain vomitting aruchi then it shld be treated as kaphvatj pradhan gulma.. medicines like varanadi kashyam, hinguvachadi choornam, kalyanaksharam are best..

[11/26, 18:53] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

True said sir......once i had seen the increased hyperacidity on prescribing Bhunimbadi pravahi kadha of sandu......but when i replaced it with churna prepared kadha....symptoms   subsides in right way as aspected.

[11/26, 18:54] pawan madan Dr: 

Use of Asav Arisht needs judicious thinking.

Many asava arishtas are pitta prakop excluding Saarivaadyasava etc.

Draksharisht is useful in amlapitta.

It needs a proper nidaan to use these as well as u need to know the prakriti and vikriti of the person.

Also one need to take care ....at what time and with proper dilution....asava arishta dont increase pitta or dont increase acidity.

There are very very few poeple who complaint of acidity after taking asava arisjt....in those too.... they might not have taken these in the proper way or they might be allergic to some product in asava arishta and also also in those pts to whom iron cause irritability.

I havent found any problem with these other than this.

[11/26, 19:11] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Aasav Arista are rochan deepan pachan but does not raise pitta still during preparation due to some faulty preparation it could be sukta because most of the aasav Arista present in market are manufactured as per text and most of these pharmacy adding sodium benzoit to there preparation making it more amlavipaki

Aasav and Arista are prepared by fermentation.

we know that fermentation is an action of yeast. yeast contains some digestive enzymes and a group of vitamin b complex.

asava and arista contains jaggery. jaggary is a good source of minerals and carbohydrates. Carbohydrates turnes into carbonic acid and then carbondioxide gas formation. Carbon molecules when taken, they digest the oxygen molecules degluted by person during mastication and swallowing, which cause discomforts in stomach. Asva contains carbon di oxide gas and therefore carbon gas assimilates the molecules of oxygen. 

 the contents of the medicine which are soluble in water and in acid mixes with the asava and arista during process of fermentation. Carbonic acid helps in digestion and therefore those who have their poor agnibal, accelerate the digestive function. Asva/arista are taken with the food, therefore the medicinal properties/medicinal contents of the herbs are mixed with the food and thus digested and assimilated by the system and then in blood stream.

they are seems to be apart of food and not as medicne, yet they are used as medicine.  So if taken with food and prepared as per classic these preparation will not raise pitta.🙏🙏

[11/26, 19:12] Vd Pratibha Navani: Not prepared as per text.

[11/26, 19:32] Dr Harsh Kishore: 

Nahi sir... Agnisanyog hone se pittkarak to nahi hoga... But once a doctor told me that he uses asav for pitta shanti not arishta because of agni sanyog only.....

[11/26, 19:33] pawan madan Dr: 

No 

I think....thats not correct explanation.

[11/26, 19:33] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 🙏🙏🙏 sir

[11/26, 19:36] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

most of the skin diseases r cured by sarivadyasava.

[11/26, 20:00] Dr Yogesh Gupta:

 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 SIR KOI FIX AMOUNT JO KI SABHI AASAVARISTHON ME SAMAAN ROOP SE LAGU HO SAKE ...

[11/26, 20:05] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Sir in mouth their is digestion of only carbohydrates not proteins so as carbohydrates have formula C6H12O6 so only oxygen molecule is digested its not about any gas 🙏🙏

[11/26, 20:12] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

And it's digestion of jaggary which contains mainly carbohydrates.

[11/26, 20:23] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏🙏 in my practical experience 15 to 20 ml  asava-arista with equal amount of water in most of the except Sarivadyasava 2X water added......consumed aftermeal.....if patient is pitta prakruti i advised to take just aftermeal.....otherwise they may consume within 15 mins...... is effective and safe🙏🙏🙏...Respected Gurujan will guide better.🙏

[11/26, 20:24] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

sir I give after 1  hr. as pr charak.

[11/26, 20:28] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏🙏🙏 mam plz give the reference.....i don't have the knowledge about this.

[11/26, 20:29] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

मैंने तो आसव-अरिष्टों को दीपन-पाचन समझा है - इनका पित्तशामक या पित्तप्रकोपक परिणाम तो इन के घटकद्रव्यों व रोगी की दोषावस्था के अनुसार निर्धारित होता है।

[11/26, 20:44] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

sir punarnavadi arishta and phaltrikadi arisht is advised in charak chikitsa 12 after bhojan pak.🙏🏼

[11/26, 20:46] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

other references I will share later.

[11/26, 20:49] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

अथ मद्यवर्गः- 

प्रकृत्या मद्यमम्लोष्णमम्लं चोक्तं विपाकतः ।

सर्वं सामान्यतस्तस्य विशेष उपदेक्ष्यते ॥१७८॥

च सू 27

🙏🌹

[11/26, 20:52] Dr Priy-ranjan Tiwari, Haridwar: 

Sir asav arist are not pitta prakopak very true still found in practice, but in the condition of amlpitta where pitta is in vidagdha form it aggravates the the amlapitta condition 🙏

[11/26, 20:55] pawan madan Dr:

👌👌👌💐

[11/26, 20:55] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Please see above ch su. 27/178

Sanskarat gunantaradhanam is possible....

P R Tiwari ji !🙏

[11/26, 20:57] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Expecting guidance from *Rasa-bheshajacharya* on current topic.

Dr Janardan ji, Dr Darshan bhai Dr Sachin ji !

Please give relevant guidance.

🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:01] Dr Priy-ranjan Tiwari, Haridwar: 

Arist me  potency teekshanta adhik hoti hai isme jo dravya use kiye jate hai generally usna virya aur tteekshn hote hain kabhi kabhi mridu aur sheet veerya dravyon ke bhi arisht banaye jate aur asav samanya roop se mridu sheet virya dravyon se banaye jate hain kabhi kabhi usn aur tteekshn dravyon ke bhi asav banaye jate hain unhe mridu karne ke liye jaise bhallatakasav aur dantyasav🙏

[11/26, 21:01] Sanjay Chhajed Dr. Mumbai: 

These days asav and arishta are not made by self generated alcohol but by adding alcohol. That is surely causing pitta vriddhi. I also experience the similar pittavridhi.

[11/26, 21:02] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

सर्वं सामान्यतस्तस्य विशेष उपदेक्ष्यते ॥१७८॥

गुरुवर ।

सामान्य सिद्धांत तो इस पर भी लागू होना चाहिए ।

🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:07] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

जब मद्य और आसवारिष्ट समान नहीं तो सामान्य कैसे। ये परस्पर विशेष हैं ।

[11/26, 21:07] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

👏🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:09] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

संधानीय कल्पना सामान्य....

शायद ऐसा ही है....

🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:09] Vd Pratibha Navani: 

Su su 45/114-115

[11/26, 21:09] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

इक्षु विकार अलग से निर्दिष्ट किये गए हैं ।

🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:16] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

आप क्या समझते हैं कि सन्धान प्रक्रिया से विभिन्न घटकों से बने दो उत्पादों के गुणकर्म समान ही होने चाहिए ।

[11/26, 21:17] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

जी नहीं सर ।

🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:18] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

अरिष्टो द्रव्यसंयोगसंस्कारादधिको गुणैः ।।१९४।। 

बहुदोषहरश्चैव दोषाणां शमनश्च सः । 

दीपनः कफवातघ्नः सरः पित्ताविरोधनः ।।१९५।। 

शूलाध्मानोदरप्लीहज्वराजीर्णार्शसां हितः ।

सु सू  45

[11/26, 21:26] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

अरिष्टासवशीधूनां गुणान् कर्माणि चादिशेत् ।।१९७।। 

बुद्ध्या यथास्वं संस्कारमवेक्ष्य कुशलो भिषक् ।

Su su 45

Dalhan

👇👇👇

अनुक्तसङ्ग्रहमाह- अरिष्टासवेत्यादि। शीधुशब्देनात्र मद्यमाहुः। द्रव्यप्रधानमरिष्टं, द्रवप्रधान आसवः, उभयप्रधानं मद्यम्। बुद्ध्या अवेक्ष्य ज्ञात्वा, यथास्वमिति यद्यस्य रोगाद्यपेक्षया हितं द्रव्यसंस्कारादि एतेनारिष्टादि विधीयते , अतस्तदनुरूपं गुणकर्म वाच्यमित्यर्थः।।१९७॥

🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:37] Dr Priy-ranjan Tiwari, Haridwar: 👏👏🙏🙏

[11/26, 21:40] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

रक्तपित्तकरं शुक्तं छेदनं भुक्तपाचनम् । 

वैस्वर्यं जरणं श्लेष्मपाण्डुक्रिमिहरं लघु ।।२१०।। 

तीक्ष्णोष्णं मूत्रलं हृद्यं कफघ्नं कटुपाकि च ।

🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:42] Dr Shekhar Singh Rathoud: good

[11/26, 21:54] Dr Priy-ranjan Tiwari, Haridwar: 

👏🙏pittavirodhan ka kya tatparya ho Sakta hai...?

[11/26, 21:55] Dr Yogesh Gupta: 

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 SIR I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE ADDITIONOF SWEETNER DURING PROCESS OF FERMENTATION OR SANDHAN.

[11/26, 21:56] Dr. Naveen Joshi: ✔👍

[11/26, 21:57] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: mixing alcohol; it is malpractice..

[11/26, 21:57] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

पित्ताविरोधन इति नञीषदर्थे, तेनेषत् पित्तं हन्तीति मन्यते। 

Tiwari ji !

🙏🌹

[11/26, 21:58] Dr. Naveen Joshi: ✔

[11/26, 21:59] Janardan Hebbar Dr: 

Arishta has inherent ushna quality. This is because kashaya is prepared in the process and die to spices added as prakshepa. 

If a fermented product needs to be pittahara, then it is more likely made into asava. 

Like hima is usually coolant, asava can also be coolant. 

Eg-: chandanasava usheerasava etc.

[11/26, 21:59] Samta Tomar Dr Jmngr: ✔

[11/26, 22:01] Janardan Hebbar Dr: 

Between kashaya phanta and hima, if all other things are kept constant, kashaya is most ushna, phanta is moderately hot and hima is coolant. 

Same rule applies to asava and arishta.

[11/26, 22:03] Janardan Hebbar Dr: 

As much as I have seen,in pharmacies like AVP and avn,  alcohol is not added directly in any case. 

Yeast is commonly used for inducing fermentation. Which is "not totally" against Ayurvedic principles.

[11/26, 22:05] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Dabur is well known in adding alcohol. They have multiple patents on such methodology. A dabar expert revealed it.

[11/26, 22:05] Janardan Hebbar Dr: Very true.

[11/26, 22:05] Prof. Mrinal Tiwari, Pune: 

In Pitta Pradhan I avoid using asava arishta ,instead I prescribe ready to use Kwath Kalpana.

[11/26, 22:12] Vd V. B. Pandey Basti U. P: 

Thanks to all those who have shared their views on aasava aristha parikalpana.

[11/26, 22:20] Dr Priy-ranjan Tiwari, Haridwar: 

Trishna jo ki multah vaat aur pittaj dosh se hoti hai koi bhi asavarist use nahi karte.

In amlpitta I use only mdhur tikt and kasay ras mostly sheetvirya dravya.

[11/26, 22:46] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Thanks hebbar Sir for your expert guidance.

🙏🌹👏

[11/26, 22:53] Dr. Yoges Deole Anand: 

Dr.Hebbar ji 🙏👌agreed with all views and same thinking is applied in clinics. Thank you.

[11/26, 22:53] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 👌👌👌👌🙏🙏🙏🙏

[11/26, 22:53] Dr Priy-ranjan Tiwari, Haridwar: 

Jaise chandan aur usheer swabhav se sheet aur mridu hote hain unka arist banane per iska natural guna vikrit ho jayega, Atah inka keval asav banaya jata hai..

[11/27, 06:16] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

Fermentation

When you combine grapes and yeast, what have you begun to make?

Wine. It may be slightly more complicated than that, but you need to start with grapes and yeast, and allow a natural fermentationprocess to occur. Essentially, this is respiration without oxygen.

Anaerobic Respiration: Fermentation

Today, most living things use oxygen to make ATP from glucose. However, many living things can also make ATP without oxygen. This is true of some plants and fungi and also of many bacteria. These organisms use aerobic respiration when oxygen is present, but when oxygen is in short supply, they use anaerobic respiration instead. Certain bacteria can only use anaerobic respiration. In fact, they may not be able to survive at all in the presence of oxygen.

An important way of making ATP without oxygen is called fermentation. It involves glycolysis, but not the other two stages of aerobic respiration. Many bacteria and yeasts carry out fermentation. People use these organisms to make yogurt, bread, wine, and biofuels. Human muscle cells also use fermentation. This occurs when muscle cells cannot get oxygen fast enough to meet their energy needs through aerobic respiration.

There are two types of fermentation: lactic acid fermentation and alcoholic fermentation. Both types of fermentation are described below. 

Lactic Acid Fermentation

In lactic acid fermentation, pyruvic acid from glycolysis changes to lactic acid. This is shown in Figure below. In the process, NAD+ forms from NADH. NAD+, in turn, lets glycolysis continue. This results in additional molecules of ATP. This type of fermentation is carried out by the bacteria in yogurt. It is also used by your own muscle cells when you work them hard and fast.



Lactic acid fermentation produces lactic acid and NAD+. The NAD+ cycles back to allow glycolysis to continue so more ATP is made. Each circle represents a carbon atom.[Figure1]

Did you ever run a race and notice that your muscles feel tired and sore afterward? This is because your muscle cells used lactic acid fermentation for energy. This causes lactic acid to build up in the muscles. It is the buildup of lactic acid that makes the muscles feel tired and sore.

Alcoholic Fermentation

In alcoholic fermentation, pyruvic acid changes to alcohol and carbon dioxide. This is shown in Figure below. NAD+ also forms from NADH, allowing glycolysis to continue making ATP. This type of fermentation is carried out by yeasts and some bacteria. It is used to make bread, wine, and biofuels.



Alcoholic fermentation produces ethanol and NAD+. The NAD+ allows glycolysis to continue making ATP.[Figure2]

Have your parents ever put corn in the gastank of their car? They did if they used gas containing ethanol. Ethanol is produced by alcoholic fermentation of the glucose in corn or other plants. This type of fermentation also explains why bread dough rises. Yeasts in bread dough use alcoholic fermentation and produce carbon dioxide gas. The gas forms bubbles in the dough, which cause the dough to expand. The bubbles also leave small holes in the bread after it bakes, making the bread light and fluffy. Do you see the small holes in the slice of bread in Figure below?



The small holes in bread are formed by bubbles of carbon dioxide gas. The gas was produced by alcoholic fermentation carried out by yeast.[Figure3]

Gut Fermentation

Behind every fart is an army of gut bacteria undergoing some crazy biochemistry. These bacteria break down the remains of digested food through fermentation, creating gas in the process. 

Summary

Fermentation is making ATP without oxygen, which involves glycolysis only.

Fermentation recycles NAD+, and produces 2 ATPs.

In lactic acid fermentation, pyruvic acid from glycolysis changes to lactic acid. This type of fermentation is carried out by the bacteria in yogurt, and by your own muscle cells.

In alcoholic fermentation, pyruvic acid changes to alcohol and carbon dioxide. This type of fermentation is carried out by yeasts and some bacteria.

coppied, fermentation rections are the basic reactions in prepration of Aasvas, Arishtas and vinegars .

[11/27, 06:22] Sanjay Chhajed Dr. Mumbai: 

AVS, Sitaram, and local manufacturers may be another companies that are using asut prakriya. But the real problem is what is available in market.

Can you please elaborate the phrase "Not totally" against Ayurveda.

This can create confusion. I agree with both Katoch sir and Soniji that madya, asav and arishta are similar and different. The process is somewhat similar but the product are different.

Even madya is different by process and ingradients

Beer

Wine

Gin

Vodka

Taquila

Brandy

Whiskey

Rum

All follow similar processes but the outcome is well apart not only in alcohol content but also in the effect on human body.

I was really fascinated after witnessing a wine tasting competition during my stinct as teacher in Europe.

The participant were not only able to tell the Crop, year of manufacturing, year of bottling, winery, the expert behind but also from which area the grapes are procured just by a sip of the liquid, it is so distinct. 

Can anyone has seen an Ayurveda expert identify these details just by sip or a byte of medicine or avaleha? How can we develop such an expert tongue and nose ?

[11/27, 06:23] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

Aasavas are prepared from raw drugs ie without boiling them, it means, difference in raw material.

1. Volatile compounds of the drug are preserved.

2. Ingredients which can be sensitive to increase in temp. like vit c etc are also preserved.

3.Microbes present in raw drugs are also preserved.

4.Acoording to Charak raw drugs are guru, swaras is guru.

It means there is difference in Aasav and Arishtas, how modern chemistry can prove the differences is a question. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/27, 06:49] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

👌 synergy of ingredients and the manufacturing process are important in making one preparation different from other.

[11/27, 07:36] Dr. Jai kumar, USA: 

Very good discussion by Dr Sashi on fermentation and acidity.

Brain ph is slightly more acidic and is determined by co2 concentration in brain which is slightly higher

It appears that more acidity may be responsible for 🧠 dysfunction and more side effects of certain drugs

Including herbal supplements

Jay

[11/27, 08:06] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

Good insight into comparative knowledge of fermentation and सन्धान प्रक्रिया। 💐💐💐

Dr. Shashi !!

[11/27, 08:10] Janardan Hebbar Dr: 

Purpose of yeast is to induce and maintain fermentation. 

Purpose of Madhuka and dhataki is adding their medicinal values + inducing and maintaining fermentation. 

Most of the times, due to quality issues Madhuka or dhataki or the Sura beeja - remnants of previous asava / arishta - these three might not induce fermentation very well. 

Hence using yeast along with them makes sense, though not told on Shastra. 

It is not hazardous. It is just a matter of convenience.

[11/27, 08:21] Shantanu Das Prof KC: 

In own experience.... before 10 yers back when u used the asava arista with a perticular company... acid erucational disorder not seen.... but now.... any type  of asavarist.... casues acidity.....I think quality is detorating..... difficult to prescribe....

Once I prepared loha saba in Summer 7 yers back it was so good.... never felt any complain by any patients....

Need of the time is quality medicines......

[11/27, 09:15] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: 

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How Does Alcohol Affect Blood pH?

BY  M. GIDEON HOYLE   •  AUG. 14, 2017

PH is a term used to describe the relative acid content of blood and other fluids called solutions. In your bloodstream, pH is determined in part by the presence of a substance called phosphate. When you drink alcohol, it triggers changes in your phosphate levels that lead to increases in your blood pH.

Understanding pH

Human blood is a solution, which means that it has components with a uniform distribution inside a liquid. The pH scale, which ranges from 0 to 14 pH units, measures the concentration of electrically charged hydrogen atoms, also called hydrogen ions, inside your blood or any other solution. PH readings below 7.0 indicate the presence of an acidic blood environment, while pH readings above 7.0 indicate the presence of an alkaline environment. A pH reading of 7.0 indicates the presence of a neutral blood environment. Normal human blood pH is a slightly alkaline 7.4.

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Kidneys and Phosphate

Alcohol alters your blood pH by altering your kidneys’ ability to maintain your blood levels of electrically charged atoms, or ions, of a mineral called phosphate. Under normal circumstances, your kidneys balance your blood levels of phosphate ions against your levels of several additional types of mineral ions — including sodium, potassium, magnesium and chloride — that affect other aspects of your blood health. Imbalances of any of these substances can significantly degrade the effectiveness of your body’s overall metabolism.

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Varying Pathways

When you drink a relatively diluted form of alcohol, such as beer, you consume a significant amount of water while simultaneously reducing your kidneys’ ability to efficiently get rid of that water, according to the University of Montana. The resulting fluid overload and alteration in phosphate levels triggers a decrease in the acidity of your blood, which means your pH level rises. When you drink more concentrated hard alcohol, you increase your kidneys’ ability to eliminate water. In turn, you concentrate your blood levels of phosphate, which also leads to an increase in your blood pH.

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Considerations

A single drink of alcohol can trigger alterations in your normal kidney function, the University of Montana reports. If previous alcohol consumption has damaged your liver, alcohol’s harmful effects on your kidneys will increase. Humans are sensitive to changes in blood pH, and pH levels above 7.8 or below 6.8 can kill you. Under normal circumstances, your body uses phosphate in a system of chemical buffers designed to combat any significant changes in blood pH. However, hard alcohol in particular decreases the effectiveness of the buffer system. Consult your doctor for more information on the kidney- and pH-related effects of alcohol consumption.

[coppied]

asavarishtas have very  very low %age of alcohol if prepared properly following ayurvedic norms. 

[11/27, 20:22] Dr. D C Katoch sir: 

Legally permissible limit of self-generated alcohol in asava-aristas is not more than 12% v/v as per Drugs & Cosmetics Rules.

[11/27, 20:32] Dr Shashi Jindal, Chandigarh: Thanks Sir !





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Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp-discussion-group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor

DEPT. OF KAYACHIKITSA

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com

Mobile No. +91 9408441150