WDS62: Discussion on "Ati-stambhan" by Prof. Satyendra Ojha, Prof. Prakash Kabbara, Dr. Pawan Madaan, Dr Mayur Surana & Others

[11/2, 17:02] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Pranam to all resp. Gurus !

Please guide that how should we understand the concept of "ati-stambhan" mentioned by Acharya Charak in Su. S. 22, especially 'shyavata' & 'hanu-sangrah'.

👇👇👇

श्यावता स्तब्धगात्रत्वमुद्वेगो हनुसङ्ग्रहः ।

हृद्वर्चोनिग्रहश्च स्यादतिस्तम्भितलक्षणम् ॥४०॥

🙏🙏

[11/2, 17:20] Mayur Surana Dr: 

Stambhan prayaha done by kashay rasa, though tikta madhur also mentioned...

In atiyog of kashay rasa (cha su 26) shyavata and ardit graha aadi vaatvyadhi mentioned..🙏🏼

[11/2, 17:26] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

द्रवं तन्वसरं यावच्छीतीकरणमौषधम् ।

स्वादु तिक्तं कषायं च स्तम्भनं सर्वमेव तत् ॥३२॥

Kashay👆 is 1 of components of stambhan.

वाते वृद्धे त्वक्पारुष्य कार्श्य कार्ष्ण्म्.....

Shyavata is surprising here....!!

[11/2, 17:51] Mayur Surana Dr: 

श्यावारुणभासता--वात नानात्मज विकार too

[11/2, 20:03] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

atistambhita means rigidity .. due to rigidity of jaw muscles hanu sangrah occurs.. Cyanosis is

Due to rigidity of respiratory muscles ..

[11/2, 20:10] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: 

Ozaji well explained, rigidity may be class knife as in upper motor neuron disease , cogwheel as in Parkinson's, but I have doubt about the histerical.

[11/2, 20:12] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: 

Atistambhit can cosidered Graha as Sandhigraha as in Amvata.

[11/2, 20:13] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: 

Regarding my post about Graha..

[11/2, 20:15] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

sandhigraha is stiffness...

[11/2, 20:16] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

stiffness occurs after inactivity as in morning after arising from bed..

[11/2, 20:17] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

sandhigraha is present in sandhigatavata ( less than 30 min) and in amavata ( more than 1 hr)..

[11/2, 20:18] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 🙏🙏

[11/2, 20:20] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: 

So for Atistambhit is concerned,it is as my consideration is, because of deranged function of Vata ( such as in reference of AHS-Sransa Vyadh Vadh Svap---)

[11/2, 21:47] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

*वाक्स्तम्भ*ं in pakshaaghaata.

stambha in Gridhrasi , raktagata vaata , hanustambha , etc.. 

in presence of stambha , svedana is first choice , but , whats about vaakstambha & *भुक्तस्य स्तम्भः च असृग्गते अनिल*े ?

*स्तम्भ* must be evaluated with specific references..

[11/2, 22:03] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

🙏

When stambhan as a therapeutic procedure applied to patient and it is done excessively then mentioned atiyoga features seen as per charak. I want to draw attention towards this. Please ask if I am wrong.

🙏🙏

[11/2, 22:41] pawan madan Dr: 

🙏🙏

These are the symptoms or problwms generated if STAMBHANA chikitsaa is applied in any patient in excess.

For this we need to see the indications of STAMBHANA..

द्रवं तन्वसरं यावच्छीतीकरणमौषधम्।

स्वादु तिक्तं कषायं च स्तम्भनं सर्वमेव तत् ॥३२॥

...these are the methods of STAMBHANA and when these madhur tikta kashaya are used in excess...they produce....

*...Shyavata....excess kashyaa rasa produce all types of spasm..here of rasa raktavaahi srotas....resulting in Shyavataa of skin*

*...StabdhaGaatrata...stiffness and spasm of maansa dhaatu due to excess sheeta guna*

*...Udvega....excess madhura rasa produce this udvega*

*...Hanusangraha....spasm of the muscles of jaws resulting due to excess kashaaya and sheeta guna chikitsaa*

*...Hrida nigrah.....feeling of spasm in cardiac area*

*...Varcho nigrah.....vibandh due to kashyaa guna*

This could be the probable explanation. 

🙏🙏🙏

[11/2, 22:47] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: 

No doubt it's true, but I want to highlight the role of causative factor such as use of excessive Kashaya not only therapeutic but as Nidan also.

[11/2, 22:47] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Thanks pawan Sir !

Nicely summarised.

🙏👏👍🙏

[11/2, 22:48] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

🙏🙏 yes Sir !

[11/2, 22:51] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Discussion held in Ayurveda-peetha on this subject:-

                [11/2, 9:29 PM] ‪+91 98220 32584‬: 

स्तंभन कर्म स्वेदन के विपरीत है।

शीतं मन्दं मृदु श्लक्ष्णं रूक्षं सूक्ष्मं द्रवं स्थिरम् 

यद्द्रव्यं लघु चोद्दिष्टं प्रायस्तत् स्तम्भनं स्मृतम् |

अतिशैत्य(exposure to cold) से अति 'स्तंभन' हो सकता है।

(अति)शीत धारा इ. उपक्रम , कषाय रस (स्तंभन उपक्रम जो वमन विरेचन अतियोग में वर्णित है) उसका अतियोग अतिस्तंभन हो सकता है।

Practically, some of these  symptoms can be seen in cold exposure. 

Excessive or improper use of opioid such as loperamide may produce some of the symptoms although not particularly शीत.  

परंतु यत् गतिमंतम् स्तंभयति तत् स्तंभनं ।। इस व्याख्या के अनुसार शायद इसको भी स्तंभन संज्ञा मिल सकेगी।

[11/2, 9:54 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Cold exposure...🙏👌

When stambhan as a therapeutic procedure applied to patient and it is done excessively then mentioned atiyoga features seen as per charak. I want to draw attention towards this. Please ask if I am wrong.

🙏🙏

[11/2, 9:58 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

Sorry... its ok.. atistambhana leads to rigidity and spasm .. atistambhana leads to vasoconstriction : both repiratory muscles rigidity and vasoconstriction may result in cyanosis..

[11/2, 10:01 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Thank you very much Sir !

It means it may affect circulatory system.

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:03 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

yes.. peripheral cyanosis due to peripheral vasoconstriction..

Central cyanosis due to respiratory and laryngeal muscles spasm.

[11/2, 10:05 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Can't we say that we are doing "stambhan karma" when we treat tachycardia ??

Or 

Stambhan is only concerned to GIT ?

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:07 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

there is too many words like angavikshepa sanga , gatisanga , gatistambha , supta , etc..

[11/2, 10:08 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

specific reference is important to evaluate anything perfectly...

[11/2, 10:10 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

स्तम्भनं स्तम्भयति यद्गतिमन्तं चलं ध्रुवम् ।

I took in little wider perspective.

I may be wrong.

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:11 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

not wrong , but not specific..

[11/2, 10:12 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Ahiphen well known stambhan dravya decreases heart and respiration rate.

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:14 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Amoung the 6 upakram satmbhan karma has very less therapeutic utility in current practice of ayurved hence I asked question.

Pranam !!🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:21 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

yes, use of arjun in tachycardia is due to its kashaayatva and sheetatva.. 

chaala is vaatasya svalakshana and stambhana is vayu karma..

[11/2, 10:24 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

For Rakta skandana, we use heema kashaaya..

[11/2, 10:24 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Thank you very much Sir !

🙏🙏

I think same principal is not applicable in PD being a vatvyadhi where swedan is most useful.

Pranam !!🙏🙏

🙏

[11/2, 10:25 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:25 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 👍🤝🌹🌹

[11/2, 10:27 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Prolepse kind of pathologies also need stambhan karma superficially not specifically.

Is it right Sir ?

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:27 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

Tremors, rigidity and hypokinesia / bradykinesia are  triad of PD, all these due to Dhatukshayajanya vaata prakopa..🌹🌹

[11/2, 10:28 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 🙏🙏👌🌹👏

[11/2, 10:28 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

prolapse.. pichchha basti

[11/2, 10:30 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Kashay sheet madhur...

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:33 PM] ‪+91 98220 32584‬: 

गुदं भ्रष्टं कषायैश्च स्तम्भयित्वा प्रवेशयेत च. सि. 6/85 

I think you are referring to this sir ....

[11/2, 10:35 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Right Sir !

Thank you Sir !

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:35 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

Great, Vd Thite ji..👍🤝🌹🙏

[11/2, 10:36 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Basically wanted to discuss the machenism of atistambhan.

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:36 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

changeri ghrit and chavyaadi ghrit in gudabhransa..

[11/2, 10:38 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

not kashaaya rasa yukta..

[11/2, 10:39 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

We need to do stambhan karma when in case of PIVD has been restored for permanent apunarbhav chikitsa....?

🙏🙏

[11/2, 10:39 PM] ‪+91 98220 32584‬: 

chaala is vaatasya svalakshana and stambhana is vayu karma..

Sir how to understand these seemingly opposing qualities ?

[11/2, 10:47 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

शैत्यात् शीत असहिष्णवः प्रततशीतकोद्वेपक *स्तम्भा*

[11/2, 22:52] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

We had this discussion in another group, that copy pasted above.

Pawan Sir !

[11/2, 22:52] pawan madan Dr: 🙏🙏

I just saw these posts after posting in this group.

😊😊

[11/2, 22:57] Dr Bhadresh Nayak, Surat: 

Kuf gun vrudhi in stambh....

[11/2, 22:58] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: 

It's beauty of concept of Vata Vyadhi that irrespective of cause,may be Avarana or Dhatu Kshaya symptoms of Vata Vyadhi are observed, Stambhan is one of the say symptom or Karma,and to alleviate it Svedan is  advocated.

[11/2, 23:00] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: 

👆Soniji your observational concept is true, really intellectual analysis.

Salute to you🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹

[11/2, 23:01] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 🌹🌹🤝👍🤝🌹🌹

[11/2, 23:03] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Thanks Sir !

 stambhan is part of santarpan. That's why I asked questions that when atibrinhan leads to sthoulya then why atistambhan does lead to such dreadful symptomatology.

🙏🙏

[11/2, 23:04] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Pranam Sir !!

🙏🙏🌹

[11/2, 23:33] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

atisthoulya is also morbid disease.

बहुव्याधि सम्मुच्य ।

[11/2, 23:44] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi: 

* Interesting Discussion*

👌👌👌👌

[11/3, 00:23] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi: 

*श्लेष्मवृद्धौ शौकल्यं शैत्यं स्थैर्यं गौरवमवसादस्तन्द्रा निद्रा सन्ध्यस्थिविश्लेषश्च।*

सु सू 15/14

*यहां डल्हण ने इसकी टीका में स्थैर्य को ‘ स्थैर्यं गात्राणां स्तम्भ:’ कहा है।*

*अतिवृद्ध कफ के विकारों में होने के कारण यहां स्तम्भ संतर्पण जन्य विकार में आता है।*

[11/3, 00:28] Dr Surendra A Soni:

{Remaining part of discussion held in Ayurveda-peetha group is below:-}

[11/2, 11:03 PM] ‪+91 98220 32584‬: 

Sir,  just trying to learn from stalwarts like you, seeking blessing.  🙏🙏🙏

[11/2, 11:05 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

If hridayanigraha is spasm, then, the word vikartika or parikartika or veshtana must be used by acharya charak.

[11/2, 11:06 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

Hridayanigraha must be referred here as decreased functioning of heart..

[11/2, 11:06 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Okk sir..

Then whats its meaning here ?

[11/2, 11:07 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Seconding....

🙏🙏

[11/2, 11:07 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

hridayanigraha is hridim baadhaam..

[11/2, 11:10 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

vega nigraha..

[11/2, 11:10 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Sir

Here the symptoms are expressed as per the subjectibe feeling of that person.

Hridyanigrah is not the spasm.....I said......its the feeling of spasm in cardiac region.....it may be due to weakness of heart or may ne sometimes due to gastric upsets.....we usually see this in many gastric disorders..

Its similar like HRITSHOOLA....it doesnt always means pain due to cardiac region...

Symptoms described are as per the rogi explained.

My little understanding..

🙏🙏

[11/2, 11:11 PM] pawan madan Dr: 😊😊🙏

[11/2, 11:12 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

We can get clues by observing/recalling the patients who frequently use loperamide, I think they are the best example to understand the mechanism of atistambhan. The initiation of pathology site must be in GIT.

Respected Ojha Sir !

Please guide in this context.

🙏🙏😌

[11/2, 11:12 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

hridayavarchanigraha : hridayanigraha + varchanigraha.. sanga..

[11/2, 11:12 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Pain due to cardiac cause..sorry ...

[11/2, 11:13 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

This hridya nigrah is present even in vibandha...😊

[11/2, 11:13 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

its one effect of stambhana at annavaha srotas ..

[11/2, 11:13 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

👌

[11/2, 11:15 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

the effect of atistambhan is observed in various sthaana, therefore shyavataadi are mentioned..

my request is to be specific....

[11/2, 11:18 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

loperamide is antiperistaltic .. therefore it decreases bowel frequency.. Sheeta is told as stambhaka, but, ati-salila-sevanaat and ambupaana are referred as hetu of tridoshaj atiasaara.

[11/2, 11:18 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Atistambhan jab bhi hogaa...in me se saare ya kuch syms aa sakte hain..

[11/2, 11:18 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

I would like to draw your kind attention towards the suppression mal-mootra, apan and sweda pravritti due to Atistambhan karma....

Should this not be taken on consideration...?

Sir !

🙏🌹🌹🙏

[11/2, 11:18 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: definitely

[11/2, 11:19 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Thats the specificity sir....

🙏🙏

[11/2, 11:19 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

yes, taken

[11/2, 11:19 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

100% to be taken...✔

[11/2, 11:22 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Then  are there not a possibility to accumulate certain waste product in the body....? In the presence of 'dhruvam gatimantam'.

🙏🙏

[11/2, 11:26 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

but, they cant lead to shyaavata.. vaivarnya is one feature of raktagata vaata.. kashasya rasa, Sheeta guna-vaata prakopa- rakta-gata vaata- Vaso-constriction - shyavataa....

[11/2, 11:29 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

vaivarnya is also feature of hridroga..

☺☺

[11/2, 11:30 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 🙏🙏😊😊🌹

[11/2, 11:35 PM] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

I think that charak is indicating certain types of toxicity either nutritional overload or metabolic waste load hence I asked Sir ! You are great combo expert of charak as well as Harrison.

Thanks you very much Sir your guidance.

🙏🙏🌹😊

Good night !

[11/2, 11:37 PM] pawan madan Dr: 💐👌👌💐👌💐

[11/2, 11:40 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

kashaaya is one hetu in udaavarta,  too many features are mentioned but not shyaavataa , even not in malamootravayu veganigraha..

[11/2, 11:41 PM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

Therefore, i think in different way..

i may be wrong..

thank you.. 

Good Night..🌹🌹🤝

[11/3, 12:01 AM] Prof Satyendra N Ojha: 

ननु कथं अपानः कुपितो अपानस्य  एव संगं करोति इति मारुतसंगशब्देन उच्यते ?

ब्रूमः -  आत्मनैः अयं दुष्टः सम्यक् अप्रवर्तमान आत्मनः संगं करोति इति उच्यते , यथा मन एव मनोनिग्रहं करोति . उक्तं च इन्द्रियाभिग्रहः कर्म मनसः स्वस्य निग्रहः( शा.1)

आचार्य चक्रपाणि च.चि. 26/5-10..

[11/3, 00:28] Dr Surendra A Soni: 

Further discussion.....

On ati-stambhan..... Compiled above

🙏🙏

[11/3, 05:35] Dr Prasad Kulkarni Nanded: 

But question arises how vayu which possess both sheeta having stambhana property and chala having motile property at the same time

[11/3, 06:26] pawan madan Dr: 

Good mng.

That depends which good is predominant at what time.

Vaata produces vibamdha as well as diarrhea and vaata increases ushnataa as well as sheetaltaa depending on 

....where it is acting

....with which dravy it is acting

....which guna of vaata is predominantly increased

🙏🙏

[11/3, 06:26] pawan madan Dr: 

Guna.....not good....

[11/3, 06:34] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: 

Dear Dr Prasad,I have regard in my mind for you. You are also IPGTRIAN? 

Prasad It's a therotical discussion, however Stambhan and Chala depends on the course of Samprapti, we have to ascertain which characters are taking part in Samprapti, accordingly Stambhan or Chalata will be observed.

[11/3, 06:36] Prof Prakash Kabbra, Nagpur: Dr Madanji 🙏🙏🙏

[11/3, 06:38] Dr Prasad Kulkarni Nanded: Yes sir..🙏

==============================================

Above discussion held on 'Ayurveda Peetha" (initiated by Prof. S.N. Ojha) & Kaysampraday group; Famous Whatsapp groups of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Compiled & edited by

Dr. Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor

Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

EMAIL: surendraasoni@gmail.com

Mobile No. +91 9408441150