WDS67: Frequency of Stool and it's various pathological aspects by Dr. Pawan Madaan, Vd. Raghuram Bhatta, Prof. Mamata Bhagwat, Vaidya Range Prasad Bhat & others.
[2/2, 07:23] pawan madan Dr:
There are many conditions in which the symptoms regarding the mala evacuation are quite confusing and we need to chikitsa sutra after seeing the upashay/anupshaya.
1.
Motions....1-3 times in the mng till noon.....normal or soft consistancy....pt feels evacuated after this and no motions at all whatsoever food he takes after this.....
2
Motions....2-4 times a day......semisolid or more loose but has to apply pressure.
3.
Motion....only 1 to 2 times in the mng....normal in consistancy......but has to sit in toilet for 20 to 30 mins...
4
Motions......loose or semisolid.....after eating something.....pt cant hold this....has to rush......but without significant pain in abdomen...
5.
Motions.....semisolid with severe pain many times jn the day night...
What chikitsa sutra needed to be applied in each one of these conditions ?
All these conditikns are included in the various stages of IBS but all need different chiktsaa.
[2/2, 08:54] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
Pawan sir... Awesome questions👌👌👌🙏🙏🙏💐💐
Pawan sir... Awesome questions👌👌👌🙏🙏🙏💐💐
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1.
*_Motions....1-3 times in the mng till noon.....normal or soft consistancy....pt feels evacuated after this and no motions at all whatsoever food he takes after this....._*
👉 *This may be prakruta - if no symptoms, ignore.*
👉 Food isn't making difference in bowel habit. Here there is delayed evacuation. This is on the backdrop of slow metabolism - slow digestion - moderate (madhyama) to mild (manda) type of koshta. I feel *Kapha type of ajirna I.e. amajirna treatment holds good here* . If pitta symptoms are available and if the person shows high pitta, the same shall be addressed.
*Slow digestion is causing slow evacuation with breaks* .
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2
*_Motions....2-4 times a day......semisolid or more loose but has to apply pressure_*
👉 Let us think of *pravahika Chikitsa here or amajirna itself* . Semisolid and loose stools is more over directing towards pitta, but if pitta is involved, there may be more evacuation and effortless one too, like in atisara. But here applying pressure, points towards Vata involvement. So *pravahika Chikitsa makes sense*. Vata-pitta or Pitta-kapha involvement associated with ama and ajirna shall be considered. Tara Tama of doshas involved shall be accessed and predominant dosha, based on its symptoms shall be addressed.
Like - ✅more loose and less pressure - pitta Vata
✅More pressure and less loose - Vata pitta
✅Semisolid and less pressure - Kapha Vata
✅Semisolid and more pressure - Vata Kapha
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3.
*_Motion....only 1 to 2 times in the mng....normal in consistancy...... but has to sit in toilet for 20 to 30 mins_*
👉 Treat Vata, here gut behaviour seems to be on the backdrop of vishamagni (kadachit pachyate samyak, kadachit na pachyate). Looks krura koshta, but isn't. Clue is normal consistency.
Looking at the greater picture, I feel it is a case of *hyperactive Vata pulling Kapha from its seat to Apana sthana*. Like in ashayapakarsha. This Kapha travels through Agni / pitta sthana and causes mandagni. Kapha further blocks Apana function, of easy evacuation. Consider *kaphavruta Apana* (not classical, just to understand). Since Kapha is involved, consistency isn't changed. Since Vata is trapped, there is easy evacuation. Here, a *laxative with kshara* will definitely help. Initially treat mandagni. Later give a laxative mixed with kshara, like *Kalyana kshara*. It's my clinical experience.
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4
*_Motions......loose or semisolid..... after eating something.....pt cant hold this....has to rush......but without significant pain in abdomen_*
👉 *Grahani Chikitsa*. Consider Pittaja. Can think of *Vidagdhajirna* also. Here, the tikshnagni quickly digests food, many times in a hurried way, sometimes improperly. Lot of pitta is produced. Sara Guna of pitta quickly mobilizes digested or undigested food quickly downwards and causes quick and repeated evacuation. Vata also need to be addressed in the follow up.
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5.
*_Motions.....semisolid with severe pain many times jn the day night_*
👉 Due to severe pain, I ll go with *vataja Grahani Chikitsa*. Since there is semisolid stools, I may think of kaphaja Grahani if it were devoid of severe pain. *Kaphaja atisara / amajirna Chikitsa* may be thought of. *Annadrava shula* can also be considered.
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You are right sir. *Upashaya anupashaya* is the key for judging these conditions and to frame Chikitsa sutra.
*Tara Tama bhavas* of doshas need to be considered.
👉 Chikitsa of types of *ajirna* (generally in acute manifestations and those cases of short duration) and *agnimandya* forms first line of treatment. I hv seen most cases respond to these.
👉 *Chikitsa of atisara, Grahani and pravahika and their subtypes* , shula Chikitsa (generally in later and chronic cases)
👉 *Krimi Chikitsa* is a must inclusion at the beginning
👉 *Adhmana, Udavarta, avarana, ashayapakarsha, vilambika* can be considered in non responsive cases
👉 In each case *ajirna and Grahani Chikitsa* can be thought of to keep things simple
👉 We need to see if bowel habits are inherited, acquired or habituated. For this we HV to understand the *koshta* of the patient thoroughly.
👉 *Toilet training* may be the key in many cases, with counseling. Stress factor shall be ruled out. Shirodhara will hv to be included in these cases.
👉 Any *habits or addictions* need to be isolated. Incompatible foods, food combinations, food allergies etc should be ruled out. *Tracking the Nidana and it's parivarjana* is the key.
👉 Let's not miss out on addressing *mind factor*
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This is *my humble submission to your queries*. This is just my thought process and open for discussion.🙏🙏🙏💐💐
[2/2, 09:32] Dr Himani Gour:
What a beautiful explanation sir....
What a beautiful explanation sir....
You have described every aspect of it. We are thankful for making us understand this so deeply.
💐💐💐
[2/2, 09:33] Dr Himani Gour:
Sir what will be dose of kalyan kshar for the patient with same complain and with what laxative it should be given...?
Sir what will be dose of kalyan kshar for the patient with same complain and with what laxative it should be given...?
[2/2, 10:34] Dr Rahul Pathania: Superb explanation sir🙏🏻🙏🏻
[2/2, 11:02] Shivali Arora KC: Nicely explained 👌
[2/2, 11:24] Dr Surendra A Soni:
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Excellent description !
Covered almost all aspects.
Raghu Sir !!
[2/2, 11:34] Dr Vinit Arora: 🙏🙏 very much helpful
[2/2, 11:43] Deepak Bassi Dr: 👌🏿👌🏿🙏🏿
[2/2, 11:45] Samta Tomar Dr Jmngr: 👌🏻👌🏻🙏🏻
[2/2, 12:07] Dr Yogesh Gupta: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🌹🌹🌹
[2/2, 12:08] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 👌👌💐💐🙏🙏🙏🙏
[2/2, 12:08] Dr Kapil kapoor: Great Raghu Sir 🙏🏻🙏🏻💐
[2/2, 12:17] Dr Sidram Guled:
Very well elaborated amshamsha Kaplana...
Very well elaborated amshamsha Kaplana...
[2/2, 12:39] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai:
Awesome understanding and explanation Raghu sir.👌👍
Awesome understanding and explanation Raghu sir.👌👍
[2/2, 12:46] Dr Jayshri Kulkarni, Latur: 🙏🏻🙏🏻
[2/2, 12:51] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
Thanks so much sir🙏
Thanks so much sir🙏
[2/2, 12:53] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai:
As far as my observations in patients of IBS is concerned, the influence of faculty of mind is directly proportional to the varied rubric of symptoms mentioned.
As far as my observations in patients of IBS is concerned, the influence of faculty of mind is directly proportional to the varied rubric of symptoms mentioned.
Confused and fear filled mind due to vague thoughts hampering the mind caused by unknown and unidenfied (by the person who is inflicted with) fear. (In other words fear of unknown causes - be it over familial/social/personal planes) -
for
point no 1.
for
point no 1.
A shokha grasta mind - for point no
2.
2.
Chinta grasta mind -
for point no 3.
for point no 3.
Anxiety and agitated mind -
for point no 4.
for point no 4.
Anxiety filled person working overtime in zeal not following his biological clock of his time line with irregular food timing and sleep habit.
In either of cases the agni is disturbed with vishamata and so is the apAna vayu gati.
Inclusion of a tranquillising combination to pacify the mind faculty will be the arena to be concentrated and thought of. 🤔
[2/2, 12:53] Dr Bhadresh Nayak, Surat:
Very interesting debut
Very interesting debut
It's very difficult to understand vibandh
Each and very personal having a different opinions and thinking
Vaidhya has to make personal diognosis according to sign and symptoms
Your feedback so imporant key to understand sir🙏👌
[2/2, 12:54] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai: 🙏🙏🙏💐💐💐
[2/2, 12:56] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
Thanks so much Bhadresh sir🙏🙏
Thanks so much Bhadresh sir🙏🙏
You are right, at last yukti plays a key role in understanding a given pathology and making diagnosis from their viewpoint🙏🙏
[2/2, 13:01] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
You can preferably give it with Avipatty churna. Or any other laxative of your choice, as per condition. See for kaphanubandha. Dose may vary from a pinch to few pinches to 1-2grams. You can give it individually too, mixed with honey. Ushnodaka may be used as post drink. Use for short duration.
Dr. Himani !
You can preferably give it with Avipatty churna. Or any other laxative of your choice, as per condition. See for kaphanubandha. Dose may vary from a pinch to few pinches to 1-2grams. You can give it individually too, mixed with honey. Ushnodaka may be used as post drink. Use for short duration.
Dr. Himani !
[2/2, 18:04] Dr. D C Katoch sir:
Weldon Sambhasha between Dr Pawan for his questions and Dr Raghuram for his answers! 💐💐💐
Weldon Sambhasha between Dr Pawan for his questions and Dr Raghuram for his answers! 💐💐💐
[2/2, 18:28] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala:
That's a Real Differential Diagnosis..
That's a Real Differential Diagnosis..
Pin pointed Queries raised by Pawan Sir and Equally very well described by RaghuRam Sir💐💐Thanks both of you ..
Your efforts are truly appreciable.
[2/2, 19:14] Dr Surendra A Soni:
Few physiological and marginal pathology conditions must be remembered in managing such cases regarding.
Few physiological and marginal pathology conditions must be remembered in managing such cases regarding.
few Lifestyle points are important to be observed that is mainly seen in point number
one.
Habit of
-late night dinner & sleeping
-delayed awakening
-delayed lunch breakfast dinner
-skipping lunch breakfast dinner
-smoking
-tobacco chewing alcoholism etc
r few factors responsible for irregular behaviour of intestine.
-excessive fibres in diet or absence of fibres in diet both condition will affect the intestinal behaviour.
- quantity of Spice and Sneha will also affect the intestinal behaviour.
-the concept of six rasas are equally effective or to be looked for intestinal behaviour.
- if madhuras is completely absence in diet definitely it is going to affect the intestine.
- if Katu tikt kashaya Rasas are dominant in diet with the absence of Sneha it is going to affect consistency of stool.
🙏
[2/2, 19:56] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey:
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👌👏👏💐🙏
Absolutely brilliant analysis and suggestions Dr Raghu Ji.
I just read your reply cover to cover. Great analysis, as always.
You are indeed an original thinker in contemporary Ayurveda.
[2/2, 20:02] Prof. Deep Narayan Pandey:
👏👌💐🙏
👏👌💐🙏
Very very novel thinking, Acharya.
These observations are gold standard indeed.
[2/2, 20:58] pawan madan Dr:
🙏🙏🙏💐💐🌹🌹
🙏🙏🙏💐💐🌹🌹
Thanks sir.
1.
*Delayed evacuation.....*👍✅
But doing ajeerna chikitsaa .... not helping at all....and also no any syms of aamajeerna found.
*Treating on the lines of Malabadhataa helps in suchbcases*.
2.
*Tara tama examination of doshas....*✅
And giving Pravaahika chiktsaa like GRAAHI helps here in most cases.
*But few cases needs Anulomana with for ex haritaki..*.😉😊
3.
*Totally agree*
My clinical exp too.
4.
Most of such cases come from the category of various tyoes of *illieitis and colitis* abd pt suffers from recurrent syms of pain, disturbances in bowel movements.
*Grahani chikitsaa is perfectly needed here but some Ropan chiktsa is also needed*....otherwise only symptomatic results are achieved.....herbs like chandan, mathuyashti and lodhra helps in such cases.
5.
👍👍👍
Thanks Raghu Ji for nice elaboration.
The purpose of putting these questions was...
👉🏻 *in many such cases we dont find Agnimandya.... although it should be there theoretically*
👉🏻 *adopting Agnivardhan or Agni correction is not giving results in most of such cases*
👉🏻 *Krimi chikitsa is my favourite line of treatment in suchbcases*
👉🏻 Toilet training is tooooo much necessary as you pointed.....like *not to make pressure for potty* and *not to stop pressure of potty* as well as *avoiding intake of excess water*
👉🏻 *Mind factor is a big one*. *In many such conditiins I just gave treatment to improve the Satva and it gave results....no deepan paachan geaahi or anuloman at all*.
*And this is a big number of cases.*
🌹💐🌹💐🌹
[2/2, 21:00] Dr Amol kadu NIA, Jaipur:
Nice questions by pawan sir and excellent explanation by raghuji sir.
Nice questions by pawan sir and excellent explanation by raghuji sir.
[2/2, 21:00] Dr Amol kadu NIA, Jaipur:
Here i want to on emphasize on hetu parivarjan chukisa.
Here i want to on emphasize on hetu parivarjan chukisa.
Most of the patient drink 3-4 glasses of water after waking up in morning which is the most common hetu.
[2/2, 21:02] pawan madan Dr:
Very true....bro...👍👍👍
Very true....bro...👍👍👍
All these points are valid and this is a big number of such cases.
As I mentioned the porpose of raising the query was ...... ajeern, aama, agni chikitsaa was not working in most of such cases and I need to try alternate chikitsaa sutra.
👍👍👍🙏🙏
[2/2, 21:02] pawan madan Dr:
Yess...
Yess...
I pointed all these in my reply.
🙏
[2/2, 21:03] Dr Amol kadu NIA, Jaipur:
नाम्बु पेयमशक्त्या वा स्वल्पमल्पाग्निगुल्मिभिः॥१३॥
नाम्बु पेयमशक्त्या वा स्वल्पमल्पाग्निगुल्मिभिः॥१३॥
पाण्डूदरातिसारार्शोग्रहणीशोषशोथिभिः।
ऋते शरन्निदाघाभ्यां पिबेत्स्वस्थोऽपि चाल्पशः॥१४॥
[2/2, 21:04] Dr Amol kadu NIA, Jaipur:
🙏🙏i missed it to read it.
🙏🙏i missed it to read it.
[2/2, 21:10] pawan madan Dr:
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Very true...
Dr. Soni !
Now I am working on all of your points.
When deepan paachan graahi chikitsaa failed in such cases then my attention was finding all such causes plus mwntal causes.
Thanks.
Now will go into more detailed history of such cases to find such factors.
[2/2, 21:17] Dr Pankaj Chhayani:
Dealing with AharParinamakara bhava is always helpful.
Dealing with AharParinamakara bhava is always helpful.
Ushma
Vayu
Klaeda
Sneha
Kala
Samyoga
[2/2, 21:22] Dr Surendra A Soni:
Kalp/rasayan chikitsa is best solution with restricted diet and lifestyle to regulate as well as rejuvenate the intestinal tone when patient is symptom free after right management.
Kalp/rasayan chikitsa is best solution with restricted diet and lifestyle to regulate as well as rejuvenate the intestinal tone when patient is symptom free after right management.
[2/2, 21:25] Dr. D C Katoch sir:
Very nice experiential inputs sharing. Here I would like to recommend to see fòr amount of fibre ìntake and timings of meals & sleep if agni, kshudha, pachan shakti and aahar matra are stated to be normal. Interplay of fibre content in meals and type of kosth determines the kind/frequency of evacuation and consistency of stools.
Very nice experiential inputs sharing. Here I would like to recommend to see fòr amount of fibre ìntake and timings of meals & sleep if agni, kshudha, pachan shakti and aahar matra are stated to be normal. Interplay of fibre content in meals and type of kosth determines the kind/frequency of evacuation and consistency of stools.
[2/2, 21:26] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
My pleasure sir🙏
My pleasure sir🙏
I am also in total agreement if the subtle points you hv noted, tried to discriminate and diagnose as a true clinician🙏👏👏👌💐
As you mentioned, agnimandhya may not be available in many cases but they might hv got latent after manifestation of disease related symptoms. Here *agnimandhya can be seen as a cause and not effect*. We can remember *vid sanga* as a purvarupa of *atisara* which are contrasting symptoms.
*We can also see the beauty of Ayurveda formulations*💐💐
They are extremely comprehensive. *Many compounds are a mix up of deepana, pachana, srotoshodhana, sramsana or grahi, Rasayana etc*
Ex - Amritottaram Kashayam is a combo of *haritaki, Amruta and nagara*... Though it's given in Jwara often, skilfully used it can be used in many disorders. This is only an example.
We also should include *Rasayana and role of Vasti* in preventing recurrences. Toilet training was explained in Ayurveda long back... *vegadharana*
Thanks for creating a scope for this discussion sir🙏🙏
[2/2, 21:27] pawan madan Dr:
🙏🙏
🙏🙏
Will take care of these factors in future.
[2/2, 21:32] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
Good one guruji🙏🙏👌💐
Good one guruji🙏🙏👌💐
*Sleep...yes*👏👌
We can find people working night shifts being culprits of these issues, one or the other.
I always advise all patients to *set up the biological clock first*
First *dinner and it's spacing with sleep should be planned*... Early dinner, right spacing with sleep time... *when followed regularly and religiously* will set the biological clock. Wake up time, breakfast time, lunch time, bowel habits...everything will adjust by itself... automatically. *Body-mind is a super combo*. If we fine tune one, the other will come in line🙏🙏
Hon'ble Katoch Sir !
Hon'ble Katoch Sir !
[2/2, 21:33] pawan madan Dr:
👍👍👍👍
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Yukti is always important and this yukti is always different in different cases.
True...agnimaandya could be cause......but then.....we need to apply chikitsaa sutra as per the present picture.
But this agnimaandya as hetu.... doesnt hold any significance in terms of treatment.
This is because I always find that Hetu vipreeta chikitsa is the ultimate apunarbhav chikitsa. And as per the context ....maanas dosha comes out to be imp hetus......
Thanks for such a nice discussion.
💐🌹💐
[2/2, 21:38] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
👌👌👌🙏🙏
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*Yukti..yes* that's the key for situational understanding and management... application of Chikitsa sutra as per current picture
Manas...many times is the boss...the messup maker😄
[2/2, 21:41] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
Thanks for encouraging words sir🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for encouraging words sir🙏🙏🙏
This platform *KS* itself is so inspirational...gives impetus for all these discussions. *A lovely classroom*🙏❤
[2/2, 21:42] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
Awesome summary of nidanas ! Soni sir...💐👏👏👌🙏
Awesome summary of nidanas ! Soni sir...💐👏👏👌🙏
[2/2, 21:47] pawan madan Dr:
Dr Raghu Ji
Dr Raghu Ji
Here I would like to fraw your attention towards Kaphaja atisaar.
Have you got some cases like this ?
[2/2, 21:51] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
Yes sir. I hv mentioned atisara in my reply, but missed out on kaphaja... that was in the back of my mind... thanks for reminding. Get to see very less of atisara cases in my clinics, but hv found few patients presenting with kaphaja atisara type of complaints. I mean finger countable.
Yes sir. I hv mentioned atisara in my reply, but missed out on kaphaja... that was in the back of my mind... thanks for reminding. Get to see very less of atisara cases in my clinics, but hv found few patients presenting with kaphaja atisara type of complaints. I mean finger countable.
[2/2, 21:55] pawan madan Dr:
If we examine the picture explained in charak for kaphaja atisaar sometimes we may put a question....weather practically this is a kind of atisaar or not...😉🤔
If we examine the picture explained in charak for kaphaja atisaar sometimes we may put a question....weather practically this is a kind of atisaar or not...😉🤔
[2/2, 22:02] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
*Charaka's atisara, Grahani and Arshas* are in such details that I too wondered sometimes regarding the listing of complaints.
*Charaka's atisara, Grahani and Arshas* are in such details that I too wondered sometimes regarding the listing of complaints.
Most times we *diagnose diseases on the basis of nirukti or paribhasha* of a disease, sometimes in description of Samprapti, other diseases on basis of symptoms.
When listing of symptoms are lengthy, we take *safer ways*.
*Studying the diseases on the basis of Charakokta symptoms is challenging*, in many cases I feel it's impossible to be frank.
*Due respect to Acharya charaka and salutes to his subtle observations* about wide range of clinical presentations if a given case or subtype of a disease. 🙏💐
[2/2, 22:03] Dr Deepak Saxena, Kurukshetra: 👌👌👌👌👌💐💐💐🙏Sir
[2/2, 22:05] Prof Mamata Bhagwat:
Your query is genuine Pawan Bhai,
Your query is genuine Pawan Bhai,
Kaphaja atisara is
Atisara Kam pravakika jyada andaz karna chahiye.
Pravahana is the feature to justify it.
प्रवृद्ध वात being obstructed by प्रवृद्ध कफ as explained by A. Sushrutha is similar to that of Kaphaja atisara as explained by A Charaka.
[2/2, 22:06] pawan madan Dr:
But still I see that we can find such conditions.
But still I see that we can find such conditions.
The need is to see broadly.
Any one type includes many different conditions.
Need to keep track of all symptoms in a collective manner.
As A day beore Dr Narinder ji made a nidaan of Vaataj Grahmi in a diagnosed case of Sjogren symdrome.
It was awesome.
I have experienced many such cases.
Thats why I pointed kaphaj atisaar.
[2/2, 22:10] pawan madan Dr:
👍👍🙏🙏
👍👍🙏🙏
Picchilam aamama tantum.....
Anubadha shoolam alpama alpam abheeksham..
Sometimes....point to IBS .D or sometimes to inflammatory bowel disease...
[2/2, 22:11] pawan madan Dr:
And its cardinal feature...
And its cardinal feature...
Krite api akrita feeling...
..is very common in clinical picture of todays lifestyle...
[2/2, 22:15] Dr. D C Katoch sir:
Unfortunately these factors can not be corrected by medicines but such patients always look for medicines without putting any effort to change their eating, sleeping habits and so the biological clock continues to remain uncorrected.
Unfortunately these factors can not be corrected by medicines but such patients always look for medicines without putting any effort to change their eating, sleeping habits and so the biological clock continues to remain uncorrected.
[2/2, 22:15] Dr Surendra A Soni:
Right Madam !👌👍
Right Madam !👌👍
Charak just mentioned the pravahika as a symptom, not described it with samprapti like Sushruta.
[2/2, 22:16] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
Indeed yes. We can find such conditions. No doubt. But how many of us see things in a broader way? It's impossible to consider all symptoms explained classically. *We need to pick pradhana lakahanas and clues*. If we really go according to Shastra, we may spend a day or week in diagnosing one condition. Hardly two. If we are doing research, it's justified. Not in clinical practice.
Indeed yes. We can find such conditions. No doubt. But how many of us see things in a broader way? It's impossible to consider all symptoms explained classically. *We need to pick pradhana lakahanas and clues*. If we really go according to Shastra, we may spend a day or week in diagnosing one condition. Hardly two. If we are doing research, it's justified. Not in clinical practice.
I agree with your second point, like *one type includes many different conditions*.
But *tracking all symptoms as per classical ref is not possible*...many times...
How many of us hv diagnosed *Sannipataja Jwara* in the basis of classical symptoms. *Have we enlisted the entire symptoms mentioned by Acharyas before treating them?*
*I bet no*
*Tracking most symptoms or important symptoms is reasonable*. The less predominant symptoms will be handled while doing *Vyadhi pratyaneeka Chikitsa*...since we are handling the roots of the disease.
[2/2, 22:16] pawan madan Dr:
Chakrapaani here mentions one word...
Chakrapaani here mentions one word...
Vibadho alpo....
It is atisaar but patient feels constipated.
Seems inyeresting.
And here if one applies vibandha chikitsaa....everything gets disturbed....
[2/2, 22:18] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
👌👌👌🙏
👌👌👌🙏
*When in crisis of diagnosis...play safe...run to Madhava Nidana*😄
[2/2, 22:18] Dr Surendra A Soni:
*'कृतेsपिsकृतशड़्कः ।'*
*'कृतेsपिsकृतशड़्कः ।'*
Classical by Acharya Charak.
[2/2, 22:19] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
True sir. These patients are really challenging. 🙏🙏
True sir. These patients are really challenging. 🙏🙏
[2/2, 22:19] Prof Mamata Bhagwat:
This is how Pravahana manifests. Feels the urge but cannot evacuate.
This is how Pravahana manifests. Feels the urge but cannot evacuate.
This *Aati nahi* (🤪😆 muafi ke liye shukr guzar !) will force him to do Kunthana.
[2/2, 22:20] Dr Surendra A Soni: 😄👍
[2/2, 22:20] pawan madan Dr:
✅
✅
In many cases its ok.
But when we come to various syndroms....really it takes a day to me for making a diagnosis and I really take time before starting the actial treatment.
😅😅😉😉
[2/2, 22:22] Prof Mamata Bhagwat:
This is feature of incomplete evacuation.
This is feature of incomplete evacuation.
It's a neurological feature developing due to inflammation present in the rectal region.
[2/2, 22:22] Vd Raghuram Bhatta, Banguluru:
✅✅✅true sir.
✅✅✅true sir.
I too have *never prescribed medicines on the day of consultation*... I ll take time, *my patients have been obliging over a period of time...know my pattern*.
[2/2, 22:25] Dr Ranga prasad Bhat, Chennai:
👌👌👌
👌👌👌
Vagus nerve irritation is the culprit.
[2/2, 22:29] Dr Surendra A Soni:
Exudative mucous is mainly responsible for this.
Exudative mucous is mainly responsible for this.
[2/2, 22:34] pawan madan Dr:
Kaise sir ?
Kaise sir ?
[2/2, 22:34] Dr Surendra A Soni:
Results of inflammation. ..
Results of inflammation. ..
As seen in dysentery.
[2/2, 22:38] pawan madan Dr: 🙏
[2/2, 22:47] Dr. D C Katoch sir:
Actual treatment ???
Actual treatment ???
[2/2, 22:48] pawan madan Dr:
😊😊😅😅
😊😊😅😅
sir actual treatment means..
Right Nidaan
Right chikitsaa sitra application..
🙏🙏
[2/2, 22:52] Dr. D C Katoch sir:
चिकित्सा तो चिकित्सा है- actual या virtual या provisional कुछ भी नहीं । अगर हो गई तो चिकित्सा है, नहीं तो चिकित्सा कैसी।
चिकित्सा तो चिकित्सा है- actual या virtual या provisional कुछ भी नहीं । अगर हो गई तो चिकित्सा है, नहीं तो चिकित्सा कैसी।
[2/2, 22:58] Dr. D C Katoch sir:
ठीक है भाई, पर असाध्यता का जरुर ध्यान रखा करो। ऐसी स्थिति में लक्षणों का शमन या नियन्त्रण ही चिकित्सा है।
ठीक है भाई, पर असाध्यता का जरुर ध्यान रखा करो। ऐसी स्थिति में लक्षणों का शमन या नियन्त्रण ही चिकित्सा है।
[2/2, 23:06] Prof Mamata Bhagwat:
Pravriddha Kapha obstructing pravriddha Vata.
Pravriddha Kapha obstructing pravriddha Vata.
Inflammation ➡mucosal discharge➡ neurological irritation➡ sense of incomplete evacuation➡ Pravahana
[2/2, 23:16] Dr Surendra A Soni:
🙏🙏
🙏🙏
*वायुः प्रवृद्धो* निचितं बलासं नुदत्यधस्तादहिताशनस्य ।
प्रवाहमाणस्य मुहुर्मलाक्तं प्रवाहिकां तां प्रवदन्ति तज्ज्ञाः ।।१३८।।
Dalhan
निचितं सञ्चयप्राप्तं, बलासं श्लेष्माणं, नुदति प्रेरयति, अधस्ताद् गुदमार्गे, प्रवाहमाणस्य प्रेर्यमाणस्य, मुहुः वारंवारं, मलाक्तम् ईषत्पुरीषमिश्रं, "श्लेष्माणं" इति शेषः; एतेनैतदुक्तं भवति- यत्र रोगे वातप्रेरितं कफं पुरुषः प्रेरयति, तां प्रवाहिकां कफं प्रवाहमाणस्य प्रेर्यमाणस्य तज्ज्ञाः प्रवदन्तीति सम्बन्धः। बलासमित्युपलक्षणं, तेन पित्तं रक्तं वा निचितमिति ज्ञेयम्।।१३८।।
[2/3, 00:00] Vd. Subhash Sharma Ji Delhi:
*इस group discussion के आगे सभी work shops और seminars छोटी हैं।*
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*इस group discussion के आगे सभी work shops और seminars छोटी हैं।*
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Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp-discussion-group of well known Vaidyas from all over the India.
Compiled & edited by
Dr.Surendra A. Soni
M.D.,PhD (KC)
Associate Professor
DEPT. OF KAYACHIKITSA
Govt. Ayurveda College
Vadodara GUJARAT, India.
Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com
Mobile No. +91 9408441150
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