WhatsApp Discussion series:23- Management of increased Ras-raktagata Abaddha-meda (Hypercholesterolemia) by Vd. Ram Shukla, Vd. Pankaj Chhayani, Dr. Raghuram, Dr. Sukhveer Verma, Dr. Ghanashyam Vatsa, Dr. Ankur Sharma, Dr. Anita Gayatri and Others

[19/07 16:13]  Dr:

 Hi, can I please know your preferred medicine to bring down the cholesterol level ? Patient is 46 yr male. I had put him on decrin plus but now much help. Total cholesterol still at 247.

LDL 174 (n= 85-130)

Patient was on statins. Now stopped since 6 months.

[19/07 16:15] Ranga prasad Ji Vd. Chennai:

 Kālajāji + Guduci satva. Has helped me at certain times.

[19/07 16:17] Dr: 

Thanks sir. In this case, if it is in readymade tablet /capsule form, it will be helpful for the patient.

[19/07 16:17] Ranga prasad Ji Vd. Chennai:

 Nope. It's not ready made sir.

GTK tablet helps at times. But the results are fluctuating. Please correlate clinically.

[19/07 16:20] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Simply haritaki choorna 2-3 gms BD with honey and Aarogyavardhini 500 mg BD should sufficient along with Pathya.

[19/07 16:36] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Katu tikt kasaya ruksh usna may be helpful.

Lahushun bud in early morning empty stomach.

Gram chana intake

Sattu intake

Walk

Avoid excessive sweet ghee oils sedentary life style.

 Langhan karm

[19/07 16:39] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau:

 sir I get satisfactory results by giving bottle guard juice before meals

Aarogyawaedhini

Trifala guggulu

and 

Cap arjun

[19/07 16:39] Harish Verma Canada: 

Long ago I read an article in The Tribune in which Dr Blendu Prakash from Dehradun  claimed to cure many cases of Multiple Sclerosis with Rasa Aushadhi, which contained Rajat Bhasama.

If he is member of Kaya Sampardaya, he can contribute and share his experience.

[19/07 16:40] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

[19/07 16:40] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

He is not here. Harish Sir.

[19/07 16:41] J K Pandey Dr. Lukhnau: 

Lahsun

dalchini

methi

tulsi

too r effective in dyslepedemia..

[19/07 16:42] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Daalchini 1 gm BD reduces B. Sugar & S. cholesterol effectively.

For minimum 3 months.

[19/07 16:59] Anita Gaytri Dr. DG: 

My dissertation work in MD was effect of haritaki churna on serum cholesterol and i got very good results.

[19/07 17:00] Dr: 

How many patients were there  in the study ? What was the average decrease in total cholesterol and LDL levels?

What was the dose of haritaki churna per day ?

[19/07 17:02] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Gomutra Haritaki should be more effective in reducing lipids.

[19/07 17:02] Anita Gaytri Dr. DG: 

Actually, i took healthy volunteers who had hyperlipidaemia with no other obvious symptoms. Only 2 patients were diabetic. 3 gm per day of Haritaki churna.

[19/07 17:02] Anita Gaytri Dr. DG:

Surprisingly, Haritaki raised the cholesterol levels in these 2 diabetic patients.

[19/07 17:04] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Would u tell me Duration between Haritaki intake & lipid profile test ???

[19/07 17:06] Anita Gaytri Dr. DG: 

The screening test....15 days after the treatment and then again 30 days after treatment.

[19/07 17:06] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

In both test cholesterol raised ?

[19/07 17:06] Anita Gaytri Dr. DG: 

Actually, we can find animal studies of haritaki on rabbits.

[19/07 17:07] Anita Gaytri Dr. DG: 

It has been already researched on animals.

[19/07 17:08] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Madam Anita Gayatri Ji

Please take your own time and give details of results in summerised forms.

[19/07 17:13] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Ruksha guna of Haritaki may scrap already deposited cholesterol's plaque etc which may raise serum cholesterol transiently in initial phases but in long term it shall reduce total cholesterol as body fat storage shall be depleted

It should be represented on graph with time duration, Haritaki intake , lipids levels.

Then we shall get actual picture

I think so.

[19/07 17:17] Anita Gaytri Dr. DG: 

I had prepared master chart... shall post everything. Just matter of time.

[19/07 17:35] Pawan Madan Dr: 

Resp sir..

In case we are not talkung about the ayurvedic diagnosis and aiming at reducing lipids with herbs then we need to consider the role of liver in this.

I have tried many things in lowering lipids like guggulu, lahsun, medohar vati, harad, arjun and many more but in vein.

Then I started using something to improve liver function and got excellent results e.g. giving Cap Cytozen.one bd alone for one month with uchit pathya apathya brought down lipid values.

Similarly other liver preparation like amlycure DS or yakritpkeehantak loh or something similar can be used.

We must give it a try and collect data. 

I am doing like this now in all dyslipideamic cases.

[19/07 17:51] Manu Vats Dr Patiala: 

Sir I treated so many case of dyslipidemia successfully on same line of treatment expressed by Pawan Sir....medohar and arogyavardhini 2to 3 TDS...and if diastolic hypertension also exist then sarpgandha zatamansi shankhpushpi in 3:2:1 ..total 500mg at night and prabhakar vati 1BD

[19/07 18:00] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:

 Absolutely agree with @Pawan sir & @Manu sir

I too hv never tried these conditions without touching the liver... Arogyavardhini, Guggultiktakam Kashayam, Varanadi, Varadi Kashayam, Medoharavidangadi lauha, Navaka Guggulu..are all useful.

[19/07 18:05] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: 

Will yield fabulous results when administered on the back drop of Virechana...

[19/07 18:06] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:

 ...I forgot....empty stomach...1 teaspoon  of mixture panchkol..nagarmotha...arjun powder with lukewarm water

[19/07 18:20] Dilip jani: 

The best for cholesterol by Tryushanadi Loha.

[19/07 18:56] Sandip Verma Dr: 

Dr. Pawan ji.

[19/07 19:49] Rajiv Rai Bose Kc: 

राष्ट्रीय आयुर्वेद संस्थान में एक शोध प्रोफेसर अजय कुमार शर्मा जी के नेतृत्व में डॉ राजीव सूद द्वारा सूक्ष्म हरीतकी चूर्ण का hyperlipidaemia में प्रभाव पर हुआ था जिसका परिणाम काफी उत्साहवर्धक रहा.

[19/07 20:07] Shekhar singh MP: 

Cholesterol can be understood, releted to Kaf dosha. Why Virechan is suggested not Vaman 

[19/07 20:18] Suman dr. Gudgav: 

Tab Cholesterol care of Bacfo pharmaceutical also has good results.

[19/07 20:22] Gururaja Bose Dr: 

Intrinsic cholesterol is produced by liver, and principally liver is accepted as moola of Raktavaha srotas and pitta sthana, so virechana will do the needful.

[19/07 20:31] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Perfect Gururaja Sir

[19/07 20:35] Sukhvir Verma Dr. KC: 

Role of Haritki in dyslipidemia also studied in Udaipur. But better results shown with lekhniya mahakasyam 

I personally feel good quantity (1-2 gm)of gugglu shows good results rather than low quantity 

[19/07 20:36] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: 

@DrShekhar sir

Virechana is the treatment of choice for both Pitta and kapha dushti (Ref: Virechana sanjgnaa Vamana Virechana yorapi yogaroodya bartate, Chakrapani on Cha.Ka.1/4)

Ref- Pitte tu virekam, shleshma samshrushte, Vata sthana gate vaa shleshmani iti, A.S.S.27

Virechana is administered in kaphanubandha Pitta..which can be considered as errors of cholesterol metabolism.. Especially the pathology taking place in Yakrit which is moola of Raktavaha srotas and Pitta sthana (as explained by @Gururaja sir)

Virechana ends with kapha (kaphanta) and thus the purpose is solved, both kapha and Pitta dushti are attended @ one shot

[19/07 20:37] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:

#Virechana in high cholesterol and dyslipidaemia

@Gururaja Sir

[19/07 20:39] Sunaina dr. mumbai: 

Garlic swarasa, Nagarbelpan swarasa, tulsi-patra swarasa, Ginger swarasa combination of these swarasa in equal quantity(10ml each) is effective in dyslipidaemia.

[19/07 20:41] Sunaina dr. mumbai: 

Even lahsun kalpa(Garlic kelpa) is very good, start from 1 garlic clove increase it till 11 then again decrease till 1,take with milk

Morning and evening gomutra 10 ml mixed with honey.

[19/07 21:18] Sandip Verma Dr:

[19/07 21:54] Manju Mishra MO UP:

 sir what is the effect of paan naagerbel swaras

[19/07 21:59] DC Katoch sir: 

Grahi, Hritgati Niyamak, Pranvahsrotobalya,

[19/07 22:27] Gururaja Bose Dr: 

[19/07 22:46] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

[19/07 22:53] Pankaj Chhayani dr nadyad:

 Hepatocytes produces 1 litre bile in a day. Bile contains cholesterol.

Bile do emulsification, saponification to digest fat.

After complete this work cholesterol in bile get reabsorp in mucosa and back travel to liver through portal vein. This is called entero hepatic circulation.

Herbs that disrupts reabsorption of cholesterol in get can lower cholesterol level in lipid profile, as bile have to drag cholesterol from blood to complete daily production.

In modern, there is sequestration drugs which break entero hepatic circulation of cholesterol. In ayurveda pitta virechana dravya do this function.

So why charaka has given katuki  in kaphaj hridroga..

All hridya dashemani dravyas also contain fibres, fibres(special barley) also break entero hepatic circulation.

One more yoga having barley- Agastya haritaki has given in Kaphaja hridroga chikitsa...

[19/07 22:59] Ravneet Kaur Ras: 

How do u know that sir

Thank u so much sir.

[19/07 23:05] Shekhar singh MP: 

Rightly said chaayaani sir,

Diet rich in fiber also reduce cholesterol, as cholesterol is bound to fibers and can't be reabsorbed.

[19/07 23:11] Tapan Vaidya ADI AP: 

मैं एक बात बताउं?

च्यवनप्राश के आंवलों को मावा निकालनेके बाद जो कुचे या फाइबर बच जाते है जिसे प्राय: फेंक दिया जाता हैं उसमें मैं हल्का नमक और नीबू का हाथ लगाकर सुखा लेता हुं। फिर मुखवासके रुपमें खाता हुं खिलाता हुं।

इससे कोलेस्टेरोल कमी करनेमें सहायता मिलती हैं। 

वैसे मैं तो उसे धात्री के होनेसे रसायन फ़ाइबर कहता हुं।

वैद्य पंकज छायाणी जी ने भी खाये हैं ।

[19/07 23:35] Samta Tomar Dr Jmngr: 

[20/07 00:30] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 Dr. Pankaj

[20/07 05:09] Harish Verma Canada: 

Does Katuki help in reducing Total Cholesterol and increasing HDL?

TC/HDL ratio matters.

[20/07 08:08] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

HDL VLDL both are produced by liver , so if liver is working healthy then HDL may increase. 

[20/07 08:22] Trivendra Sharma Jpr: 

Panchkol 1 gm  haritaki 1,gm  for ldl hdl,  bd   100% normal  hoga.  Curd  aur amla drava band.  Amla - vidaaha  karta hai ,  dahi abhishyandi.       kacchi ghani mustard oil kaam Mein Lena hai . Refind band.

[20/07 08:26] Lokdeep Sharma Dr:

 @dislipidemia- ajmodadi churan 3gm bd wid lukewarm water before food. excellent results,used in many patients.

[20/07 09:17] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU:

  If we r thinking to reduce the cholesterol level, only seeing the lipid profile , are we going in a right path .......???  

In recent study a green signal already given to cholesterol. There is need of so much changes in literature also, as per the study.

I ve taken history of many patient with raised lipid level, even after strict cholesterol free diet. Gradually those patient suffer trom severe constipation, vata vyadhi , parkinsonism etc.

[20/07 09:58] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

You are right Dr. Anupama Ji.

Complete Absence of *Aharparinamkar bhav 'Sneha'* may lead to certain vatika disorders. 

Actually very well description presented by Dr. Pankaj also includes the concept of *"Sneha* & *Drava guna"* of Pitta at certain level as per requirement. (Production of Liver). 

In the absence of Fat in Diet (an essential substance), liver produces cholesterol as per requirement. 

More and more patients are coming in hyperhomocysteinamia level because the upper limit is constantly decreasing by pharma lobby. Previously it was 250 later on reduced upto 200 and now perhaps 180 that is not  a true picture. Individual variation should be taken into consideration as per ayurveda principals that is missing in modern system. 

We should focus on presenting features due to dyslipidemia if any rather than the lab investigations. Dr. Ram Shukla Ji mentioned this in details around 6 months ago.

Yes excessive decrease in *Snehansha* will definitely going to produce GIT nutritional or neurological imbalance. 

*स्नेहसारो पुरूषोsयम्*

As Dr. Anupama Ji mentioned.

Expecting a few comments from *शरीरक्रियाविद्*.

[20/07 10:22] shuklaji ram: 

Dr Aseem Malhotra, a cardiologist and science director of campaign group Action On Sugar, wrote in the British Medical Journal that it was time to "but the myth of the role of saturated fat in heart disease". 

And science writer and Tory peer Mark Ridley told The Times that the U-turn was "long overdue".

"The evidence has been building for years that eating cholesterol does not cause high blood cholesterol," he said.

"Cholesterol is not some vile poison but an essential ingredient of life," he added. "Lowering blood cholesterol by changing diet is all but impossible."

Eating eggs and high fat dairy products reduces diabetes risk

Glass of red wine a night could help manage cholesterol

The US Department of Health and Human Services, along with the Department of Agriculture, issues itsDietary Guidelines for Americansevery five years.

The guidelines influence everything from advertising, to school dinners - as well as the type of diet advice offered by medical professionals.

What is cholesterol?

A steroid lipid (fatty substance) found in the blood and the most common type of steroid in the body. It makes cell membranes flexible (as it maintains cell integrity while allowing them to adapt and move, unlike plant cell membranes) and is the raw material for making hormones, like testosterone and oestrogen.

Why is it important?

Cholesterol is essential for metabolism and is a major component of the blood. It is essential for the production of the hormones responsible for salt, sugar and sex. Cholesterol is also necessary for the normal permeability and function of the membranes that surround cells.

How is it made?

Your liver manufactures most of the cholesterol in your blood. It adjusts according to what you ingest and is transported through the bloodstream by different types of lipoproteins.

[20/07 10:24] shuklaji ram: 

The cholesterol myth: Is sugar the big culprit?

By Steve Milano, Tribune Brand Publishing

If you want to reduce your risk for the type of coronary heart disease often referred to as “clogging” or “hardening” of the arteries, should you reduce the amount of cholesterol, saturated fat or sugar in your diet?

If you’ve been trying to reduce high blood cholesterol levels, you might be surprised to learn that sugars, even more than saturated fats, are the main culprits contributing to your problem. It’s also not the cholesterol you eat. That’s because the cholesterol that causes atherosclerosis, or plaque in your arteries, is mainly manufactured by your body, not a result of the dietary cholesterol contained in the foods you eat, explains cardiologist and cholesterol expert Dr. Seth Baum, founder of Preventive Cardiology in Boca Raton, Florida.

Even more confusing is that the amount of “bad” cholesterol (known as LDL) in your blood is not as important as the number of LDL particles you create. LDL particles transport LDL cholesterol throughout your body. The more LDL particles in your blood, the more likely LDL cholesterol will penetrate your arteries, create plaque, and then cause the arterial problems, including inflammation, that can lead to heart attack and stroke.

Dietary cholesterol isn’t the bad guy

Eating high-cholesterol food, such as eggs, doesn’t significantly increase the production of LDL particles, says Dr. Baum, who treats patients with severe cholesterol problems. “Consumption of cholesterol generally does not increase your cholesterol very much. That’s why the American Heart Association has very significantly changed its recommendation on how often you can eat eggs.”

Even saturated fat isn’t as big a contributor to heart disease as experts once thought. “Saturated fats tend to increase your cholesterol much more than dietary cholesterol, but unless you’re consuming large quantities of saturated fat, it’s not as bad as we once thought,” says Dr. Baum. “If you look at all the clinical trials and sum them up, saturated fats are not as bad as we used to think. Unfortunately, there has been an attempt to interpret that as, ‘Hey, you don’t have to avoid saturated fats; we can all go out and have bacon cheeseburgers’ but that’s not true because we know that saturated fats lead to some increase in LDL cholesterol.”

“There’s so much confusion and misinformation about this subject even among people who are very informed because the results of dietary studies on cholesterol have been oversimplified, when the reality is, there are so many variables that the issue becomes extraordinarily complicated.”

Avoiding cholesterol can cause problems

“When people try to change their diet based on reducing cholesterol, the substitutes they choose often contain more sugar, which leads to the overproduction of LDL particles,” says Dr. Baum. “So, if you decide, ‘Instead of having that steak, I’m going to have a piece of salmon,’ that’s a good move. If you say, ‘Instead of having that steak, I’m going to have a carb-heavy meal with potatoes and bread and pasta, then that’s a bad move. Be careful what you’re substituting.”

Adding dietary fiber to reduce cholesterol is another common strategy for improving heart health, but even that’s misunderstood, says Dr. Baum. While dietary fiber helps remove the cholesterol you eat from your body, it also removes byproducts from our internal production of cholesterol, leading to a more robust reduction of LDL particles from your bloodstream.

[20/07 10:26] Shuklaji Ram: 

It has been observed in a number of patients that those who are having normal cholesterol suffer from cardiac disease and those who are having high cholesterol are living normal life. 

[20/07 10:30] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

[20/07 10:32] Shuklaji Ram: 

Protecting yourself against heart disease requires far more than just simply lowering your cholesterol levels. In fact, 50 percent of the people who are hospitalized with heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels, and 25 percent of people who develop premature heart disease have no traditional risk factors at all. Maybe elevated cholesterol isn’t the real cause of heart disease in the first place.

[20/07 10:35] Shuklaji Ram: 

A heart attack is simply the death of muscle cells in the heart from a lack of oxygen. This occurs when blood flow can’t reach the heart because of a blockage or clot in the arteries caused by a clumping of blood platelets, or because of inflammation that causes an unstable plaque to break off and block the blood flow in the artery. Sometimes a spasm in the artery blocks the flow to the heart, or the heart goes into electrical chaos and simply stops its synchronized beating on its own.

Causes of Heart Attacks

1. Clot formation

2. Plaque instability

3. Vasospasm

4. Electrical chaos (sudden death)

[20/07 10:36] Shuklaji Ram: 

None of these four causes of heart attacks has much to do with increased cholesterol levels, but all of them have everything to do with “bad” eicosanoids.

[20/07 10:37] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Excellent Shukla Sir .

[20/07 10:42] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

*परिहार्या विशेषेण मनसः दुःखहेतवः ।*

is the ultimate cause (truth) mentioned by Charak regarding heart disease.

Thanks Dr. Ram Shukla Ji.

[20/07 10:51] Manu Vats Dr Patiala: 

Relating hypercholestremia criteria  for treatment or cardiac cause is not fair from Ayurveda point of view.....signs &  symptoms matter a lot..some present with distended abdomen or indigestion or lethargy or reflux ..on examination diastolic BP......so initially Pitt kafaj lakshan which later on convert to vaatz....by considering all these treatment is to be given...my experience is removing or treating those symptoms ..patients feel.much better...ultimately..biochemistry changes in blood also gets normal.....no need for statins at all....bp also gets normal to 110/70....

[20/07 10:52] Shuklaji Ram:

Well quoted soniji

[20/07 10:55] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Yes Manu Sir.

Same thing I quoted.

You are talking about pressure symptoms that are mentioned in *hridgulma*.

[20/07 11:06] Manu Vats Dr Patiala: 

 Dr Soni ..

[20/07 11:07] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

[20/07 11:12] pawan madan Dr: 

[20/07 11:12] pawan madan Dr:

Soni sir...

[20/07 11:13] pawan madan Dr: 

Ram Shukla sir....

[20/07 11:14] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

Pts(children) of nephrotic syndrome have dyslipidemia, still they don't suffer from MI.

What is reason?

परिहायॉ विशेषण मनसो दु:ख हेतव??

As child is not aware of pros and cons of cholesterol, not taking stress related to job, family etc...

[20/07 11:14] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Perfect Dr Pankaj

[20/07 11:15] Gururaja Bose Dr: 

[20/07 11:17] pawan madan Dr:

 

Cholesterol is not at all the culprit.

[20/07 11:20] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

As LDL is not bad cholesterol, but oxidized LDL is bad. Oxidized LDL produced by free radicals.

More anxiety, stress produce more free radicals..

So 

परिहार्या  विशेषण मनसो दुःख हेतव ।

स्रोतसां प्रसादनं .. प्रशमो ज्ञानमेव च ।। 

is perfect treatment of heart disease...

Modern physicians advise for fat restriction, by this advise they creating more patients rather than curing...

Cells have own choice whether cholesterol takes from dietary sources or do denovo synthesis...

[20/07 11:23] Shuklaji Ram: 

We have watched a number of Hindi movies in our childhood 

When a father hears some shocking news on a telephone and very next moment he is having a cardiac arrest 

[20/07 11:24] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

[20/07 11:24] Shuklaji Ram: 

Bollywood directors should have read charak samhita I guess

Perfect, scientific and practically applied quote  of charak 

[20/07 11:26] pawan madan Dr: 

Whats the ref of this shloka ?

[20/07 11:26] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

Suppression of crying and its harmful effects..- Charaka Samhita A.-7/22..

प्रतिश्याय अक्षिरोगश्च ह्रदरोगश्च अरुचि भ्रमः !

बाष्प(अश्रु)निग्रहणातत्र स्वप्नो मधं प्रियाः कथा !!

According to charaka, suppression of crying can cause Rhinitis, eye diseases, Heart disease, vertigo...

In Indian culture, there is custom of crying after death of beloved person. Posthumously rituals continue for 12-15 days, during these days people condolence relatives of deceased person. Mostly during these days people cry in group..

This ritual is very scientific..crying helps to mourning relatives come out from sadness. Nowadays period of mourning is being decreased to 2-3 days, this is very harmful for sad people...

Crying is thought to help reduce stress, which can have a damaging effect on our health & has been linked to a number of health problems including heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes and obesity. 

Crying can help to wash chemicals linked to stress out of our body, one of the reasons we feel much better after a good cry...

Suppression of crying cause eye disease---   

we all need the layer of protective fluid covering our eyeballs known as continuous or basal tears.. Basal tears contain lysozome, a powerful and fast acting antibacterial & antiviral agent. Without this, eye would suffer from  enormous amounts of bacterial attack  and u could potentially go blind..So why suppression of cry can cause Eye disease, according to Ayurveda.

[20/07 11:27] Shuklaji Ram: 

Charak sutra 30

[20/07 11:27] pawan madan Dr: 

[20/07 11:28] Shuklaji Ram:

Ch.su.30/13-14

[20/07 11:32] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Excellent Dr Pankaj

[20/07 11:33] Manhar M Prajapati MO: 

Dr. Pankaj & Rambhai

[20/07 11:35] Shuklaji Ram: 

Modern science is far behind establishing these causes.

It is only a trailer. 

[20/07 11:35] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

 Suppression of ashru Vega cause heart disease. As we are missing our rituals....We have no enough time for crying. We finish all posthumously rituals within 3-4 days... रोने के बाद लोग कहते है, रोने से मेरा ह्रदय हल्का हो गया..

आजकल लोग को अपने परिवार जनो के मृतयु के बाद भी रोने के लिये समय नही मिलता और ह्रदय भारी हि रहता है, जो आगे जाके ह्रदरोग करता है.

पुराने जमाने मे मरने के बाद १२-१३ दिन शोक रखते थे, जिसमे शोक शल्य का निर्हरण भी हो जाता था !

100% true

[20/07 11:37] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

[20/07 11:40] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

This is only one glimpse of Ayurveda. Modern science all the time blaming fatty diet, they don't know other causes or they have not enough time..So Why Ayurveda is complete science, Ayurveda throws light on all aspects not only medicine. 

[20/07 11:42] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Even modern cardiac management some time causes a kind of phobia/ bhaya unknowingly instead of *Prasham or Manahprasadan*  that is more unfortunate.

[20/07 11:43] Shuklaji Ram: 

Reduced oil and ghee in the fear of cholesterol has resulted in high number of tkr- total knee replacement. 

[20/07 11:44] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

Agree...

[20/07 11:44] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

Cardiologists and orthopedics have mutual understanding..

[20/07 11:44] Manhar Prajapati MO: 

[20/07 11:44] Shuklaji Ram: 

Our science says sesame oil reduces meda, but modern science says to eat rice bran and non sticky oil. 

[20/07 11:45] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Creating customer for life..

[20/07 11:45] Manhar Prajapati MO: 

Oil sticky nahito to vo oil  kaise ?

[20/07 11:45] Rameshwar Rao Rane Mu: 

[20/07 11:45] Shuklaji Ram: 

I mean how can you call a substance a sneha which is not snigdha(chip chip). 

Snigdha is the main characteristics of sneha

We apply non sticky oil on our head.

Will it work at all..?

Better apply nothing rather than applying non sticky. 

[20/07 11:47] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

स्नेह सारोयं पुरुषं:, प्राणाश्च स्नेहभूयिष्ठाः स्नेह साध्याश्च भवन्ति।।

Susruta has said all things in this one line

[20/07 11:48] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

  added केरोसिन

[20/07 11:48] Shuklaji Ram: 

[20/07 11:48] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

[20/07 11:50] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Agni is supreme.

It s care is most important.

[20/07 12:10] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Excess of anything is harmful for body either snighdhta or rukhsta

Our aim is to establish Samayavastha.

If we promote to eat lots of snigdh aahar then due to obesity we shall promote  exertional dyspnea, knee joint osteoarthritis.

Our body organ lungs heart skeletal system have to work a lot to bear extra kilograms.

Hence i believe in state of equilibrium.

We should  recommend sneh until we get Snighdha purush  lakshan.

[20/07 12:11] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Sneh is also considered in madhur ras varg.

[20/07 12:12] Gururaja Bose Dr: 

[20/07 12:12] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

 Gururaja sir

[20/07 12:15] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

Sneha is one of the 6 ahara parinama kara bhava, not ruksha..

There is स्निग्धं अश्नियात in aaharavidhi, not ruksha...

And acharyas have clearly indicated who are नित्य स्नेहनीय..

We have to keep all things in mind...

[20/07 12:19] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

Snigdha ahara is not main culprit of Obesity... Snigdha aahara gives satisfaction..

If we eat one laddu of pure ghee, we feel satisfy and we don't feel hungry for many hours compare to other diet... Though sneha is Guru but in compare to other articles like Pishtanna etc sneha is better. 

[20/07 12:20] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

If one get excessive snigdh , then should we apply same dose of sneh ???

Atisnigdha

Atiruksha

Both conditions can't be a healthy status.

[20/07 12:21] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

Today more than 90% obese people not using sneha, even not applying ghee on chapati, still they don't get and benefit. 

[20/07 12:22] Sandip Verma Dr: 

[20/07 12:22] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

Charaka susruta have given indication of Nitya snehaniya, we should consider this..

[20/07 12:24] Shuklaji Ram: 

Yes Pankaj, but so called educated are not consuming even the essential quantity and anupana and way of taking sneha should be propagated. 

[20/07 12:26] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

 ग्राम्यो हि वासो मुलं अशस्तानां

People even using remote control to switch off fan etc...Then how dry chapati decrease weight...

[20/07 12:26] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Moderate quantity of sneh is required for everyone. But dose may very person to person according to kostha. 

[20/07 12:31] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

[20/07 12:31] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

Suppose a person who is obese weight above 100 kg , can't walk due to excessive weight , now if he again take madhur ras as milk, ghirt etc ,

Then due to lack of exercises moderate quantity of sneh would not be utilize in metabolism rather it get accumulate in adipose tissues.

Medashwi purush will get mahamedashwi purush.

[20/07 12:32] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

[20/07 12:33] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

Still in sthaulya charaka has said for गुरुश्च अपतर्पण

[20/07 12:34] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

We can't follow uniform protocols for various persons, we shall have to modify doses diets etc according to patients physique.

[20/07 12:34] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

In medaswi purush we shall have to follow aptarpan. 

[20/07 12:36] Shuklaji Ram: 

I was a guide for PG Scholar.

She had given til oil,(trifaladi oil) snehpan in sthaulya and achieved great results

Til oil is indicated in medasvi as well.

See charak sutra

[20/07 12:37] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:

Sneha is important Aharaparinama kara bhava, so according to person sneha should be given...

[20/07 12:37] Shuklaji Ram: 

Til tail orally snehpan has also given good results in obesity. 

Also sarsapa oil. 

[20/07 12:38] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad: 

[20/07 12:39] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Me to used this. 

[20/07 12:39] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi: 

[20/07 12:40] Shuklaji Ram: 

The trial was a comparative study.

One group oral trifaladi oil was given and other group Basti with the same in sthaulya.

Oral snehpan gave encouraging results than Basti In many criteria. 

[20/07 12:43] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:

 Mahatriphala ghirt may be a good option for medaswi purush ??

[20/07 12:55] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 Perfect.

I m using Til-tail.

Selection  of patient is important with counseling and purity of Til Tail.

[20/07 12:55] Somraj Kharche Dr. KC: 

अगर हम तिल या मूँगफली को दबाते है तो उसमें से तैल आता है? क्या ऐसा सोयाबीन, राइस ब्रान, ओलिव, कॉर्न से संभव है? मैंने तो आजतक नही देखा। तो ये लोग इससे ऑईल निकालते कैसे है? अगर किसी को जानकारी हो तो कृपया प्रकाश डाले

[20/07 12:56] Shuklaji Ram: 

Sthavar sneh ki 18 yoni di hai.

Aaj kal to 50 se bhi jyada ho gai hai

[20/07 12:57] Somraj Kharche Dr. KC: 

मैं वही पूछ रहा हु सर की कैसे ?

[20/07 12:57] Shuklaji Ram: 

Yes I agree with you. 

[20/07 12:58] Ghanshyam Vatsa KC MD:

Dr. Harish

  Yes

sir, 

Kutki performs in dyslipidemia. My personal experience. 

[20/07 13:09] Shuklaji Ram: 

As the name suggests it is made from husk of rice. 

These business men are making money out of waste products and marketing. 

We generally don't consume husk. If it is in some region at all

The educated class is the first to be fooled

[20/07 13:13] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

I m surprised why they are not analyzing and promoting the *til tail*... as they are promoting 

*भूसे का तेल*

[20/07 13:13] Shuklaji Ram: 

Because they are making money from waste products.

100% profit

[20/07 13:14] Dr Surendra A. Soni: True

[20/07 13:14] Ghanshyam Vatsa KC MD: 

They will advertise and will make a huge market for this oil

After 20-30 years a study will come that it is not useful.

Millions of dollars business till then 

[20/07 13:14] Dr Surendra A. Soni:
 

[20/07 13:15] Shuklaji Ram: 

Already studies are there that rice bran oil has big disadvantage. 

[20/07 13:15] Somraj Kharche Dr. KC: 

भूसे का तैल 

[20/07 13:15]

Dr. Surendra A. Soni:

भूसा भूसा ही रहेगा 

[20/07 13:16] Somraj Kharche Dr. KC: 

जर्सी गाय का दूध पिने वालो की बुद्धि   भूसे की और ही आकर्षित होती है सर....

[20/07 13:17] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

[20/07 13:17] Ghanshyam Vatsa KC MD: 

What is the solvent for extraction of rice bran oil ?

It may be at petroleum product. 

[20/07 13:19] Ghanshyam Vatsa KC MD: 

I have started guiding my patients towards "Vita A 2" milk. 

[20/07 13:22] Shuklaji Ram: 

They are very clever 

They are marketing as rice bran and not 

Rice husk. 

[20/07 13:24] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 

श्रीमन् आचार्य राम शुक्ला जी ।

इस पर आप जैसे या और कोई द्रव्यगुण के उदभट्ट विद्वान् श्रीमन् संजय लुंगारे महोदय जैसे  किसी डॉ अंकुर शर्मा जैसे तीक्ष्ण बुद्धि वाले छात्र से शोध प्रबन्ध (thesis) करवाये तो नीर क्षीर का ज्ञान हो ।

[20/07 13:25] Ghanshyam Vatsa KC MD: 

We are far far behind them in marketing.

That's why we are still alternative medicine despite .....

[20/07 13:35] Shantanu Das Prof KC: 

I am following the discussion about Hyperlipidemia....

I feel it is simple Medovaha sroto dusti.. where... Dhamaniya-uplepana dhamani naan pustataa...Dhamni upalepa...which increase the thickness of arteries....by...kapha-Rakta-Meda.., due to consumtion of virudha aahara....

Normally I use....Arogyavardhini and....Rakta chandan kwath...BD....!

I am getting good results....As Arogyavardhini reduces the production of Apachita meda..., lekhana..and mala paachak....

Rest ....by discussion.....!  

[20/07 19:59] Radheshyam Soni dr: 

मेदो रोग में तैल प्रयोग अभीष्ट है, इस बात का पुष्ट प्रमाण उरूस्तम्भ रोग में मिलता है, जहाँ पर पंचकर्म नहीं करना, केवल क्षपण कर्म ही करना है, उस अध्याय में भी आचार्य अष्ट कटवर तैल का प्रयोग बताते है, जो स्नेह की महिमा को दर्शाता है।

[20/07 19:59] Radheshyam Soni dr: 

डॉ राम शुक्ला जी और डॉ. पंकज छायानी जी

[20/07 20:06] DC Katoch sir: 

Rightly acclaimed in Charak Samhita that Hridrog Pratishedh needs interalia sustained Manoshanti, Srotoprasadan and Satmya Sevan.

[20/07 20:07] Radheshyam Soni dr: 

कहने का तातपर्य ये है की मात्र 1 रोग जिसमे स्नेहन वर्जित है, उस रोग में भी आचार्य स्नेह प्रयोग का लोभ संवरण नहीं कर पाये

[20/07 21:15] Sukhvir Verma Dr. KC: 

Haryana govt has started the Desi Cow milk production Vita (like Saras and amul). They are promoting the A2 protein available in Desi cow. Means in Haryana we can get the Desi cow milk (as described in Ayurvedic literture) from stores easily
Intially this 60 rupess per litre
Definitely good for Ayurvedic treatments.

[20/07 21:17] Priyranjan Tiwari Dr. : 

Urustambh me lagataar ruksh chikitsa karne per vaat ki vridhi hone per snehan ka varnan hai saindhavadi astakatvar tail etc. Samanya roop se snehan nishedh hai.

[20/07 21:27] Sukhvir Verma Dr. KC: 

I usually classified the sthaulayata in two groups - kaphaj (meda vridhi) and vataj (hormonal). Treatment in both category is different.   Agni samyata is mandatory in both cases. In vatik sthaulayata use of sneha like ghrita and tail is effective  and in kaphaj sthaulayata lekhan karma is  effective.
Always use sneha and always use of rukhshan is not good. It seems to be पुरूषं पुरूषं  वीक्ष्यं

[20/07 21:32] Prof. KSR Prasad: 

Interesting 
Can it be as sthoulya is kapha predominant ... a pittanubandha and kaphanubandha sthoulya possible.

[20/07 21:42] Sandip Verma Dr: 

 Dr Sukhbir ji

[20/07 21:57] Prof. DS Mishra: 

आयुर्वेद में दो शब्द  मिलतै हैं 
स्थूल एवं अति स्थूल।
स्थूल  व्यक्ति  में  अग्नि  संधुक्षण निरंतर  होता रहता है  चाहे वह रुक्ष आहार  ही ले रहा हो।
उपरोक्त  दो शब्दों  मैं  अन्तर  कैसे  करेंगे

[20/07 21:59] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Respected Prasad Sir
Can we not understand the said 2 different types of pathological conditions suggested by Dr. Sukhvir as
 *1. Prakritisamasamaveta*
*2.Vikritivishamasamaveta*

I agree with Dr. Sukhvir if we find minute classical helpful in management we should do as per clinical presentations seen in majority of patients.

[20/07 21:59] Katoch sir: 

Mild to moderate - Sthool,                  

Severe- Atisthoo

[20/07 22:02] shuklaji ram: 

Tail is vat kaf shaman and medaghna.
So it can be given in both

[20/07 22:02] Dr Surendra A. Soni: 

Aavaran par vichar karana hai.


[20/07 22:03] 

Prof. DS Mishra: 

आवरण  सेही तो मेदो  वृद्धि  होती  है

[20/07 22:18] Prof. KSR Prasad: 

Even this is a good thought
 What about avritamedatwa...?

[20/07 22:27] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 May be in form of *Medasaratva & Sthoulya*.

[20/07 22:53] Vishal arora Pathankot Dr:

 Pranam Shukla sir,
Please tell about trifladi oil, it's reference or yoga and please tell that,  was it used as shamana sneha ?? For how long and what was the dose ??

[20/07 23:02]

Prof. KSR Prasad

:

Combination of triphala as guggulu is effective in TG but not in VLDL OR LDL

[20/07 23:15] Vishal arora Pathankot Dr:

 Sir,
Please tell about Sookshma hareetaki choorana, is it like Sookshma trifala / trifala plus kajjali ??

Or hareetaki plus kajjali ??

[20/07 23:45] Dr Surendra A. Soni:

 It is Bala haritaki / jou harad Only Vishal Ji.

[21/07 05:54] Rajiv Rai Dr:

 Yes sukshmharitaki is balharitaki or छोटी हर्रे

[21/07 05:57] Vishal arora Pathankot Dr:

 Thanks dr rajiv sir
Thanks dr soni sir

*************************************************************

Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Suggestions & questions are welcome from the Ayurveda students. I shall try to get answer from experts and present here on webpage.

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor & H.O.D.

Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com

Mobile No. +91 9408441150