WhatsApp Discussion series 26: Discussion on Therapeutic Uses of Erand-tail (Castor Oil) in R.A. by Dr. Praveen Kumar Madikonda, Dr. Raghuram Bhatta, Dr. Sheetal Joshi, Dr. Ankur Sharma, Dr. Anupama Patra and Dr. Shephali Arora
[12/16, 09:55] Praveen Madikonda Dr:
Eranda taila has been referred as "Agrya virechana ausadhi" among snehas by acharya charaka..............
เคธ्เคจेเคนเคจे เคाเค्เคฐ्เคฏเคฎैเคฐเคฃ्เคกं เคคु เคตिเคฐेเคเคจे| ( charaka sutra / sneha-adhyaya) There is a great science and logic attached to it. 
Even though trivruth is stated as best for Virechana............. Eranda taila is best among sneha virechana
The reason could be Adhobhaga hara" property of eranda acc to Susruta
adhobhaga hara is very important propery of eranda taila which is not there for any other entities
เคเคฐเคฃ्เคกเคคैเคฒं...............เคตा
susruta sutra 45
its due to the adhibhaga doshahara property...... which is more essntial criteria than all put together..
from a modern pharma perspective............
Castor oil is regarded as a stimulant and irritant laxative without known mechanism of action
the EP3 prostanoid receptor is specifically activated by ricinoleic acid and that it mediates the pharmacological effects of castor oil.
These findings identify the cellular and molecular mechanism underlying the pharmacological effects of castor oil and indicate a role of the EP3 receptor as a target to induce laxative effects.
[12/16, 11:33] pawan madan Dr:
If u justify erand tail from modern point of.view......
How will u justify that castor is considered a drastic purgative and not at all considered best as in.ayurveda....??
[12/16, 11:39] Praveen Mendikoda Dr:
Dear sir, I mean to only say that eranda taila is best Sneha virechana ausadhi as already stated by acharya CHARAKA and now substantiated by modern research... With a receptor induced mode of action.
[12/16, 11:56] pawan madan Dr: 
๐ป๐ป๐ป
[12/16, 12:05] S A Soni:
Great !
It' s a real contribution Sir for all of us .
Thank you Sir.
[12/16, 12:12] Praveen Mendikoda Dr:
[12/16, 12:14] S A Soni:
Drug of choice for vigun vat in almost all kind of vat-vyadhis. Charak mentioned this 'payaserand-tailen' in line of management of vat-vyadhis.
[12/16, 12:20] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
*Eranda Tailam* is a boon for Ayurvedic practitioners, not only it is effective, it's also safe, it's also an easy choice, there may be so many Virechana dravyas and compounds, but our thoughts start with Eranda taila and many times end with it...
My all time favourite prescription in Vata pradhana conditions..
It's variants *Gandharvahastadi Eranda Tailam, Nimbamritadi Eranda Tailam, Sinduvaraerandam* have been a major part of my 20 yrs practice, never did I get any complaints of complications or side effects
*Practice substantiates theory*
*Hence proved*
[12/16, 12:34] S A Soni:
Saindhavadi tail too.
[12/16, 12:42] Praveen Mendikoda Dr:
[12/16, 13:25] Ashwini Kumar Sood Dr:
The castor oil available in market causes VIRECHAN once or twice in a single dose of 30 ML and it should be considered soft evacuation and contraindicated in pregnancy
[12/16, 13:27] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU:
It is true that erandtail is best among all sthavar sneha for virechan purpose but comparative effect of tilwak ghrita should be evaluated because it is also advised in baat vyadhi by sushrut.( Ref su .chi. 4/27)
Is it available in market ?
I think it will be better in ghrita satmya patient.
[12/16, 13:56] Praveen Mendikoda Dr:
Recent research on castor oil shows that it's use in labour is both economical and safe as EP3 and Ep4 receptors are also present in the uterus.
[12/16, 14:04] Ashwini Kumar Sood Dr:
But it's use has become obsolete as in 3rd term it causes uterine contractions and specially un safe in pts who had caesarean section in previous child births
[12/16, 14:10] Praveen Mendikoda Dr:
Castor oil induces laxation and uterus contraction via ricinoleic acid activating prostaglandin EP3 receptors...Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2012 Jun 5; 109(23): 9179–9184.
Published online 2012 May 21. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1201627109
PMCID: PMC3384204
Pharmacology
Castor oil is being still in use in some villages for induction of labor without any complications. But its better to avoid with history of previous cesarean section ............
[12/16, 17:35] Shivali Arora KC:
It's also used in 9th month of pregnancy as it induces uterine contractions and help in labour... to be avoided in pts with h/o c-section.
[12/16, 19:23] Anju Nvle Dr:
Dr Arora Please share about the quantity in both the cases๐ป
[12/16, 19:52] Shivali Arora KC:
In vata vyadhi 20ml HS initially for 7 days then 5 ml bd alongwith kwath
In pregnancy 5-10ml with lukewarm milk od
[12/16, 19:59] Haresh Soni Dr. Parul:
Can we use eranda mula kwatha when patient is not comfortable with taila?
Or in Sama condition kwath will be better and in nirama condition sneha will be better.
[12/16, 20:19] Anju Nvle Dr:
Along with kwath...after meals or before
Because these companies of South recommend all kwaths empty stomach morning evening.
[12/16, 20:26] Shivali Arora KC:
Half hour before meals
Rasnaerandadi kwath also available if Pt doesn't prefer oil
Yes right... it's prescribed in aamvata pts who due to some reasons don't take castor oil
[12/16, 20:42] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
*Sarpi Tailam vimishritam*...;thats what I was trying to tell... Thanks for reference sir
[12/16, 22:20] Tapan Vaidya ADI AP:
เคเคฐंเคกเคธ्เคจेเคน เคी เคเคฐ्เคा เค
เค्เคी เคฎเคจोเคตिเคฐेเคเคจ เคเคฐाเคคी เคฐเคนी। เคเคฐंเคกเคธ्เคจेเคน เคी เคฏे เคूเคฌी เคเคाเคฐ्เคฏोंเคो เคญी เคจเคนी เคชเคคा ।
[12/17, 06:34] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
Does the kashayam have equal effect as of erand tailam?
เคเคฎเคตाเคค เคเคेเคจ्เคฆ्เคฐเคธ्เคฏ เคเคฐเคฃ्เคกเคธ्เคจेเคนเคेเคธเคฐी ।
Here tail is indicated. Does the kashayam has equal effect?
Resp. Grp members,
เคเคฎเคตाเคค เคฎे เค
เคฎ्เคฒเคฆ्เคฐเคต्เคฏ เคช्เคฐเคฏुเค्เคฏ เคนै เคฏा เคตเคฐ्เค्เคฏ? เคोเค เคธंเคฆเคฐ्เคญ เคนै เคเคธ เคตिเคทเคฏ เคฎे เคคो เค्เคฐृเคชเคฏा เคฎाเคฐ्เคเคฆเคฐ्เคถเคจ เคเคฐे ।
[12/17, 07:40] Praveen Mendikoda Dr:
Certainly not......Eranda taila is irreplaceable in amavata. In Amavata pain (vata) is a predominant symptom. Erandataila serves the dual purpose of Snehana and virechana in Amavata.
More over Eranda taila is directly indicated in "Ama" condition by Acharya charaka, with reference to Anaha prakarana of Trimarmiya chikista........
เคเคจाเคนเคฎाเคฎเคช्เคฐเคญเคตं ............เคเคฏेเคค्เคคु เคช्เคฐเค्เคเคฐ्เคฆเคจैเคฐ्เคฒเค्เคเคจเคชाเคเคจैเคถ्เค
เคฆोเคทाเคจुเคฌเคจ्เคงเคฏोเคाเคค् เคช्เคฐเคถเคธ्เคคเคฎेเคฐเคฃ्เคกเคं เคคैเคฒเคฎ्||เฅจเฅฏ|
even in Amaja Anaha ...........only Eranda tailam is indicated............... than we can imagine its importance and relevance in Amavata...........
[12/17, 13:16] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
But some pt's having frequent motion, some having loose motion, and some r getting constipation - เคฌเคฆ्เคงเคฎเคฒ/ เคฎเคฒเคฌเคฆ्เคงเคคा and it's difficult to continue for some B'coz of its odour.
When administered with shunthi kwath it reduces/nullifies abdominal cramps.
One pt had complained that she was having fresh blood per rectum with stool. Is it possible?
Can we use เคธ्เคจेเคน เคช्เคฐเคตिเคाเคฐเคฃा for erand tail? Will it serve the same purpose with equal effect?
What will be the possible cause? She has c/O it after 20 days if continued use of it.
It's ruled out sir.
She also had c/o abdominal cramps while taking erand tail which is under control by shunthi kwath
[12/17, 13:43] S A Soni:
เค. เคฐเคธเคตिเคฎाเคจ
เค
เคฎ्เคฒเคฆ्เคฐเคต्เคฏ *เคธเคจ्เคงि เคाเคก्เคฏเคเคฐ* !!
[12/17, 13:49] S A Soni:
Variation in response possible as per preexisting dosha sthiti.....
Constipation may be because of less dose.
Use should be up to the control of vitiated vat .... Not as a 'abhyas'. Chronic condition needs periodical use not the regular. Very Small dose may be continued if necessary.
[12/17, 13:50] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU:
If we analyze the example given by maharshi charak about the action of vaman, virechan and vasti. its clearly indicating the local action.
เคैเคธे เคตเคธ्เคคि(both) เคฎें -เคैเคธे เคชेเฅ เคे เคฎूเคฒ เคो เคाเคเคจे เคธे เคถाเคा เคธुเค เคाเคคी เคนै.....
เคเคธเคธे เคชเคคा เคเคฒเคคा เคนै เคนเคฎाเคฐे เคตเคธ्เคคि เคฆ्เคฐเคต्เคฏ เคชเค्เคตाเคถเคฏ เคฎें เค
เคตเคธ्เคฅिเคค enteric nervous เคธिเคธ्เคเคฎ เคे เคเคฐिเคฏे เคाเคฎ เคเคฐ เคฐเคนा เคนै।เค
เคเคฐ absorption เคธे เคाเคฎ เคนोเคคा เคคो เคเคฆเคนाเคฐเคฃ เค
เคฒเค เคนोเคคा?
เคैเคธे เคी -เคฎूเคฒ เคธे เคชाเคจी เคฏा เคाเคฆ เคाเคจे เคैเคธा.....
เคเคธเคคเคฐเคน เคตिเคฐेเคเคจ เคे เคฒिเค เคเคฆเคนाเคฐเคฃ เคฆिเคฏा เคเคฏा เคนै เค
เค्เคจिเคृเคน เคธे เคเค เคนเคाเคจे เคे เคैเคธा ,เคจ เคी เคเค เคฌुเคाเคจे เคा?
เคตเคฎเคจ เคे เคฒिเค เคเคฆเคนाเคฐเคฃ เคฆिเคฏाเคเคฏा เคนै- เคैเคธे เคेเคค เคी เค्เคฏाเคฐी เคा เคฌाँเคง เคुเคเคจेเคธे เคธ्เคตเคฏं เคेเคค เคे เคชौเคงे เคธुเค เคाเคคे เคนैं, เคจ เคी เค
เคงिเค เคเคฎे เคนुเค เคเคฒ เคो เคชंเคช เคฏा เค
เคฒเค เคคเคฐीเคे เคธे เคจिเคाเคฒ เคจे เคा ? เคฏे เคธเคฌ เคเคฆเคนाเคฐเคฃ เคธे local action เคा เคนी เคธเคฎเค เคเคฐเคนा เคนै। เคนो เคธเคเคคा เคนै เคैเคธे เคंเคेเคฐिเค เคจเคฐ्เคตเคธ เคธिเคธ्เคเคฎ เคชเคคा เคเคฒा เคนै, เคเคे เคुเค เคตिเคฐेเคเคจ เคคเคฅा เคตเคฎเคจ เคเคฐ्เคฎ เคธเคฎเค เคจे เคे เคฒिเค เค
เคฒเค anatomy เคฏा physiology เคชเคคा เคเคฒे ?
เคฎेเคฐे เคเคนเคจे เคा เคฎเคคเคฒเคฌ เคญोเคฒेเคนी เคฅोเฅा เคฌเคนूเคค absorption เคนो เคเคฏुเคฐ्เคตेเคฆ เคे เคนिเคธाเคฌ เคธे เคเคฐ्เคฎ เคฒोเคเคฒ เคธ्เคिเคฎुเคฒेเคถเคจ เคธे เคนो เคฐเคนा เคนै। เค
เคเคฐ absorption เคคเคฅा assimilation เคैเคธा เคुเค เคฐिเคซเคฐेเคจ्เคธ เคฎिเคฒे เคคो เคเคฐूเคฐ เคถेเคฏเคฐ เคीเคिเคฏे เคा, เคคाเคि เคเคे เคเคธเคो เคธเคฎเคा เคाเค।
เคฎेเคฐे เค्เคฏाเคฒ เคธे systemic action เคธे เคเคคเคจा quick response เคธंเคญเคต เคจเคนीं เคนोเคคा। เคฎेเคฐे เคธเคฎเค เคธे เคोเค เคญी เคช्เคฐเคฏाเคถ เคถाเคธ्เคค्เคฐाเคงाเคฐ เคธे เคเคฐेंเคे เคคो เคจिเคท्เคซเคฒ เคจเคนीं เคนोंเคे। เคฌाเคी null hypothesis เคญी เคฐिเคธเคฐ्เค เคा เคชाเคฐ्เค เคนै। เคคो เคเคจ्เคซเคฐ्เคฎेเคถเคจ เคे เคฒिเค เคोเค เคญी เคฐिเคธเคฐ्เค เคिเคฏा เคा เคธเคเคคा เคนै।
[12/17, 13:52] S A Soni:
bleeding ! Quite possible if preexisting condition or mridu koshtha / raktasar.....or intake of pitta prakopak diet...
Pravicharana ! Yes
*Sabji* cooked with erand sneha may be planned at dinner as spices mask the bad odour . Many vaidyas are using this.
[12/17, 14:04] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
Use of Eranda bhrushta Vartaka us anyhow given as an example in our texts, other vegetables can be experimented...Yukti!!
[12/17, 14:05] S A Soni:
Please give reference...
[12/17, 14:26] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
Will try sir, not remembering, seems anubhuta yoga, I prescribe this in patients of amavata.
[12/17, 14:59] Praveen Mendikoda Dr:
[12/17, 16:29] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
Thanks sirji.
TG He ref. has GI en the solution of some other doubts. ๐ผ
[12/17, 16:35] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
Soni sir, but in aamvat rogadhikar เคญै. เคฐ. amla is not contraindicated.
Is there any ref from aamvat rogadhikar?
I observed aamlaki and dadim can be used in vatik prakriti nd vat dominant condition.
Yes sir, I also observed that less than required dose creates CV constipation.
Periodical ? What should be the period? of intake and rest ?
[12/17, 16:45] Praveen Mendikoda Dr:
Just as in Modern medicine for Rheumatoid disease, Methotrexate is a golden standard..........in Ayurveda Eranda taila has to be taken as a standard medication.......... its dose and anupana needs to be adjusted as per the need of the patient.
[12/17, 16:45] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
What is the antidote? of such condition. I just discontinued the taila.
[12/17, 16:48] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
Some time such mixed or samputit erand tail develops malabaddhata in some pt. May be again it's being case of insufficient dose...?
[12/17, 16:54] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
[12/17, 17:05] Kapil kapoor: เค़ เคि़ เฅจเฅฌ
[12/17, 18:02] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
[12/17, 18:33] S A Soni:
เคญै เคฐ is a compilation work. It's not known for basic principal.
Amla dadim may be used as per condition or เคฎเคจเคธो เคช्เคฐिเคฏं (change เคเคจ เค
เคจुเคชाเคจ).
[12/17, 18:45] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo: 
[12/17, 18:48] S A Soni:
Periodic means Weekly monthly like wise....
[12/17, 19:42] Shivali Arora KC:
Amalki and dadima both are amla rasa but madhur vipak
[12/17, 19:52] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
Both cause raktvridhi , hence these are specially useful in cases of vaat vridhi due to raktkshay.
[12/17, 19:58] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
Dr ankur,
What's ur observation? Is it useful in qualitative or quantitative raktakshaya? Or in both ?
[12/17, 20:03] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
As per clinical observations & laboratories findings , both are useful in raktkshaya-- specially microcytic hypochromic anaemia.
Vaat vridhi symptoms gradually reduced as ghabrahat( palpitations), nervousness, swaash etc
[12/17, 20:03] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
In aamvat, if pt is having intense desire/ craving for any rasa or dravyas, if esp. for amladravya......, how it should be considered ?
[12/17, 20:05] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
It indicate ,Pt is suffering from anaemia.
Pt has deficiency of agni tatva
[12/17, 20:08] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
In such condition is it advised (in a pt of aamvat) or not?
I think it should be used though it's contraindicated in aamvat but in such condition, it can be used it may help improve general condition of the pt.
Pl. Correct if I'm thinking in wrong direction.
[12/17, 20:13] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
I agree with u
We have to make equilibrium , we don't need to implement every theoretical aspect into practices.
[12/17, 20:13] Kapil kapoor:
Practically it is observed that amalki deteriorates the symptoms in amavata conditions. Probably coz of its sheetaviryata.
Amla rasa with ushna virya combination must be used in amavata conditions.
[12/17, 20:14] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
If one uses one type of dravya for prolonged period then other dosha may be aggravated according to concepts.
[12/17, 20:15] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
Orange can be used ?
[12/17, 20:15] S A Soni:
If burning desire of any food or anything it must not be ignored as per principal of
เคธ्เคตเคงाเคคुเคฏोเคจिเคตเคฐ्เคงเคจเคฎเคจ्เคจเคชाเคจं เคช्เคฐเคाเค्เค्เคทเคคि ।
[12/17, 20:18] Kapil kapoor:
Don't use any uncooked food item like juice.....
You can use amla dadim, imli, lomon but cooked along with food.
[12/17, 20:18] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
Yes sir, that's why I'm using it. It also helps to minimize the discomfort of the erand tail. But worried either I'm in right direction.
[12/17, 20:18] S A Soni:
[12/17, 20:20] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
During pregnancy , body crave for particular type of food , as these are deficient.
Pica in children also indicate deficiency of calcium, iron minerals etc.
We can't ignore these practical points.
Dog's churn doob grass in phase of indigestion & tasteless sensation.
Most of the birds & animals cure itself by natural alarming process created by god
[12/17, 20:21] Kapil kapoor:
Only till เค
เคญिเคช्เคฐाเคฐ्เคฅिเคค् by the patient or you decide to give him
[12/17, 20:22] S A Soni:
Tomato soup with spices is less risky.
[12/17, 20:22] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
Sirji, do you mean that even fruits should be cooked before use aor such pt,?
[12/17, 20:22] S A Soni: With essential modification
[12/17, 20:22] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo: for
[12/17, 20:23] S A Soni:
Putting in hotwater for 5 to 10 minutes will be helpful
[12/17, 20:24] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
[12/17, 20:24] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
What may be other option in such condition to improve Agni condition.?
[12/17, 20:24] Kapil kapoor: Fruits should be avoided....
[12/17, 20:25] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo: Even if it's not feeze col?
[12/17, 20:26] S A Soni: Yes
[12/17, 20:26] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
[12/17, 20:27] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo: From cooking or using?
[12/17, 20:27] S A Soni:
Tikta katu dravya....
Aasavarishta ......
[12/17, 20:27] Kapil kapoor: From using
[12/17, 20:29] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo: 
[12/17, 20:51] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
I feel, with a vision towards tissue or organ specificity if a medicine, herb or compound ( *target tissue or organ or disease, when a disease modifying herb or compound us used* ) - it will eradicate the samprapti only if there is a plugging mechanism b/n medicine and disease samprapti,
I mean if the receptors at the site of vikriti identify and catch hold of medicine or attract it's gunas and interact in a complex mechanism to break the samprapti....
If a wrong medicine is prescribed, the basic intelligence of the system or the pathological complex of the disease will *reject the medicine*
In such cases there may be one or the other of -
This works on basis of Upashaya-Anupashaya
I mean to tell that a disease pathology responds or doesn't respond to a medication depending on how the given disease us recognized at the receptors... *as agonist, antagonist or alien*
Same is the case with *Eranda Tailam intolerance or discomfort*...
*If symptoms reduce, Eranda Tailam is a good choice, our diagnosis was spot on*
On the other side
*If there is no response, or if there is intolerance, then Eranda Tailam is not a medicine if choice there, and we need to revisit our diagnosis*
Principle holds good with all medicines...
In these cases we need to look for co-prescriptions to the main medicine (Eranda Tailam here) which nullifies the ill effects of the medicine or wards off intolerance, if we have *plan B* we need not bother, switch to other best medicine
(May look out of context, but since the discussion was on tolerance n discomfort if medicine, I thought of putting forth my part of hypothesis)
Experts can comment
[12/17, 21:08] Prof. Daya Shankar Sir: After taking pain killrs pitt is agrivated in some condition pt should be given treatment of amlapitta.
*************************************************************
Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp group of well known Vaidyas from all over the India.
Suggestions & questions are welcome from the Ayurveda students. I shall try to get answer from experts and present here on webpage.
Compiled & edited by
Dr.Surendra A. Soni
M.D.,PhD (KC)
Associate Professor
Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa
Govt. Ayurveda College
Vadodara Gujarat, India.
Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com
Mobile No. +91 9408441150
very good information sir
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