WhatsApp Discussion series 27:Understanding the phrase quoted by Acharya Charak by Dr. Praveen Kumar Madikonda, Prof. Ramakant Sharma 'Chulet' and Dr. Anupama Patra

[12/18, 20:00] Praveen Mendikoda Dr: 

भिक्षुकस्य बीजमिव कर्षकस्य सूत्रं बुद्धिमतामल्पमप्यनल्पज्ञानाय भवति;                        

तस्माद्बुद्धिमतामूहापोहवितर्काः, मन्दबुद्धेस्तु यथोक्तानुगमनमेव श्रेयः|   

what a beautiful sloka by Acharya Charaka 

[12/18, 20:27] S A Soni: 

[12/18, 20:31] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU:  sir reference please?

[12/18, 21:34] Praveen Mendikoda Dr: CHARAKA Vimana 8th chapter 149 Sloka

[12/18, 22:20] Praveen 

Mendikoda

 Dr: 

Like Bikhsa is  much needed for a beggar and seed is essential for a farmer, principles / formulations of therapy  are important for a wise physician. However People with wisdom (buddhi) can generate analpa (abundance)  from alpa (little). That's why..... People with buddhi (intellect)  are capable of Uha (imagination), apoha (presumption /right, wrong ) and Tarka.  Hence sutra or principles are of much needed aid for alpa buddhi.... its better for a person with lesser wisdom to follows what is   told in the text. Where as a wise physician can make modifications of formulations based on his yukti and tarka, Uha and apoha ....

[12/18, 22:23] S A Soni: नमो नमः ।

[12/18, 22:25] Praveen 

Mendikoda 

Dr: 

[12/18, 22:33] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD: 

 Beautiful........ Dr Praveen ji 

[12/18, 22:57] Praveen 

Mendikoda

 Dr: 

what a great verse it is............ he gave full authority to the wisdom of the physician in choosing, adding, deleting a particular drug from a formulation........... Its delight to read charaka samhita

[12/18, 22:59] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: 

'प्रचरणमिव भिक्षुकस्य ' थोड़ा समझ में नहीं आरही है? Overall meaning to samajh mein aarahi hai. Very nice version.

Par ek baat nahin samajh  parahi hun ki buddhimaan kisko samjhein ? Mein to 100% alpa buddhi category mein aati hun, isliye sidha sidha shastra mein batai gayi baath ko grahan karti hun. 

[12/18, 23:13] Praveen 

Mendikoda

 Dr:

Very valid doubt............प्रचरणं भिक्षामूलं तण्डुलादि पात्रस्थम्|,   Chakrapani ..

[12/18, 23:34] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: 

Sir, please hindi vyakhya? क्या जैसे भिक्षुक के लिए पात्र समझना चाहिए?

[12/18, 23:41] Praveen 

Mendikoda

 Dr: 

Here it includes both "tandula" and "patra" . The simple logic is without tandula, patra Becomes useless.

[12/18, 23:52] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: 

मेरे समझ से अगर भिक्षुक को पात्र देदिया जाए या कृषक को वीज देदिया जाए जैसे उससे भिक्षुक भिक्ष्याबृति से अपना जीविका निर्वाह कर सकता है तथा कृषक अपना खेती करके शस्य उत्पादन कर सकता है बैसे ही बुद्धि मान व्यक्ति सूत्र रूप में दिए हुए ज्ञान से युक्ति लगा कर अलग अलग फार्मूलेशन बना सकता है ?

Is it right or any thing else?

[12/19, 00:09] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD: 

भिक्षुकस्य... अल्पम्  अपि अनल्‍प

जैसे  भिक्षु के लिए अत्यंत कम भी बहुत अधिक होता है !

[12/19, 00:13] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: 

Sir shlok is प्रचरणमिब भिक्षुकस्य...so question is what is pracharana ?

[12/19, 00:16] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD: 

Very valid doubt............प्रचरणं भिक्षामूलं तण्डुलादि पात्रस्थम्|,   Chakrapani ..

[12/19, 00:18] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: 

Sir ye meaning kuch hajam nahin ho rahi hai is paripreksh mein. 

[12/19, 00:20] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD: 

प्रचरणम् इव भिक्षुकस्य अल्पम अपि अनल्पम ?

[12/19, 00:21] S A Soni: 

Wandering...

Collecting Small amount from different home...

[12/19, 00:22] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD: 

Then.. अल्पम अपि अनल्पम ?

[12/19, 00:22] S A Soni: 

द्वार द्वार घूमता हुआ थोड़ा थोड़ा लेकर अपनी झोली / पात्र भर लेता है ।

[12/19, 00:23] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD: 

This is the main theme

अल्पम अपि अनल्पम ?

[12/19, 00:23] S A Soni: 

कृषक थोड़े से बीजों से अनल्प /प्रचुर धान्य उत्पन्न कर लेता है ।

[12/19, 00:24] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD:

 भिक्षुक....... please

[12/19, 00:24] S A Soni: उपमान प्रमाण है ।

[12/19, 00:25] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD: 

[12/19, 00:26] S A Soni: 

सादृश्य के आधार पर पूर्वोक्त स्कन्ध से द्रव्यों का चयन उक्त विधि से करना है ।

[12/19, 00:26] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: thank u sir.

[

12/19, 00:27] S A Soni: सादृश्य/उपमान

उक्त उदाहरण से समझना है  ।

[12/19, 07:08] Praveen 

Mendikoda 

Dr: 

In continuation  to the previous day discussion on charaka vimana verse.......

[12/19, 07:08] Praveen 

Mendikoda

 Dr: 

प्रचरणमिव भिक्षुकस्य बीजमिव कर्षकस्य सूत्रं बुद्धिमतामल्पमप्यनल्पज्ञानाय भवति; तस्माद्बुद्धिमतामूहापोहवितर्काः, मन्दबुद्धेस्तु यथोक्तानुगमनमेव श्रेयः|

 ................... acc to chakrapani प्रचरणं भिक्षामूलं तण्डुलादि पात्रस्थम्",  which means tandula and other eatables with in the patra (not to consider patra).   just like udarstam means organs of udara, mastshkastam means parts of brain, patrastam in this context is eatables available in the patra..........

The second meaning is "Prakarshena charanam pracharanam"  though chakrapani did not mention it...........it also refers to walking (charana) as seed is essential for farmer so as walking is essential for bhikshu............ in the same way sutra for a physician .................

 The following is the meaning, if we only consider acharya chakrapani and rewrite the meaning of whole verse...........

Like tanduladi (rice and other eatables placed in the patra)    is for a beggar and seed  for a farmer, so as the principles / formulations of therapy  are important for a wise physician, however little they may appear in true spirit they are abundant.  

Which means if sutra or principle though may be said in a very small phrase if analysed it leads to abundant knowledge (for a wise physician)

For bhikshu tandula and other eatables procured by means of BHikhsa though may be little but it could be a life saving measure for him. 

For karshaka, seed even though may appear small but has whole tree in it.

The second line 

The wise physician is permitted to make Uha, apoha, vitarka and can decide some changes based on logic

But the one with lesser wisdom is supposed to follow what is said in the sastra as it is........... 

[12/19, 08:01] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir Nia: 

It inspires for continuous search if one is capable to see one example . 

Pracharanmive bhikshukasya :

A bhikshu has some tandul in patra , if he remembers the method of collection , he can collect more and more , if some one is not interested / not capable to increase tanduls in the patra he has no option except - jo hai usase kaam chalaiye .

Few seeds of a karshak / krishak , his desire to cultivate more and more and more , only is a matter of time , after some time he will have sufficient quantity as he requires.

[12/19, 08:12] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU:

  sir as per my understanding ,here example of bhikshu and krishak has been given to illustrate the importance of intelligence. How a intelligent vaidya can utilize his knowledge from a limited resources ? 

So we ve to understand the meaning of examples also  in same way. I think here the intention of author is not for giving importance to the sutra roop ayurveda.

So the meaning of 2nd last stanza is seems to be doubtful.

The second meaning- walking is essential to collect eatables seems to be more appropriate. 

[12/19, 08:12] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: 

[12/19, 08:14] Praveen 

Mendikoda 

Dr: 

Another good dimension sir

[12/19, 08:17] pawan madan Dr: 

Very nice elaborations..

Dr Praveen ji

Dr Soni ji

Dr Ramakant ji

Dr Anupama ji

[12/19, 08:18] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir Nia: 

Walking will be useless if someone in not having -vidya vitark vigyan smriti and tatparta in a Vaidy and in a bhikshuk/ karshak while trying to get new crops with limited resources.

[12/19, 08:21] Praveen Medi Dr: 

[12/19, 09:50] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: 

[12/19, 10:21] Shivali Arora KC: 

[12/19, 11:24] Vd. Dhanvantari Pancholi MD: 

Now that's ..Vaidya Samuho Nissanshay .........................................!!

Time invested in the group really a good investment.Kudos  the Admin ji. !!

According Sage Chanakya(theme)..........One has to keep vigilant about.............What we are doing, what for doing,where are we going .Keep setting the orientation                                                               

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Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Suggestions & questions are welcome from the Ayurveda students. I shall try to get answer from experts and present here on webpage.

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor

Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com

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