WhatsApp Discussion series 29: Madhu(Honey) and Madhumeha(Diabetes) by Dr. Praveen Kumar Madikonda, Dr. Raghuram Bhatta, Prof. Ramakant Chulet, Dr. Ankur Sharma, Prof. K.S.R. Prasad, and Dr. Pawan Madan
[12/25, 19:55] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
[12/25, 20:02] Praveen Medi Dr:
Safety of Honey in diabetes is beyond any doubt. If you examine the formulations described under prameha / madhumeha, anupana for majority is Madhu.
मधु च श्लेष्माणं जयति, रौक्ष्यात्तैक्ष्ण्यात् कषायत्वाच्च;
श्लेष्मा हि स्निग्धो मन्दो मधुरश्च
charaka vimana 1
[12/25, 20:13] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
Yes Sir you are right but I always hesitate....If you share any case Ill be obliged
[12/25, 20:14] Praveen Medi Dr:
Ruksha, tikshna and kashaya guna are the qualities of honey which are exactly opposite to that of Kapha, hence there are no issues as per ayurveda..
Even as per modern science, Honey contains "Fructose" as a major constituent and to a lesser extent Sucrose.. Thus it by passes Glucose metabolism. so it does not increase glucose ...............
[12/25, 20:35] pawan madan Dr:
Sir...do u have some exp in which u used or advised tge diabetic honey and it didnt increase tge blood sugar levels ?
[12/25, 20:42] Praveen Medi Dr:
Yes sir. Beyond any doubt i always prescribe honey as anupana for diabetics. I always prescribe Nishamalaki yoga by asking the patient to mix haridra churna with amlaki rasa and honey every morning ............... i never witnessed any increments in blood sugar attributable with to this formulation.
Infact "Ruksha guna" of honey is a helpful tool for a diabetic patient.......... this is where ayurveda sounds unique and can provide a whole new dimension to the existing standard way of thinking..
[12/25, 20:50] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
Thanks a lot.
[12/25, 21:04] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
Honey is rapidly manage cases of hypoglycemia in comparison to other carbohydrate.
Monosaccharides fructose provide instant energy in hypoglycemic shock.
[12/25, 21:05] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
Same here,
Only problem I hv encountered with Madhu is *reluctance and hesitance* on the part of *Google expert patients*...
Or else Madhu goes good with DM and urinary disorders....
I hv seen medicines failing to yield results when Madhu was indiscriminately or accidentally missed by patients... Especially in DM..
Compliance of *Shodasha Kala yukta Chikitsa Chaturvedi* is so important in treatment...
And *Anupana, sahapana and aushadha sevana kala* hv not been mentioned just like that.
[12/25, 21:10] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
*Madhu-udaka* I regularly use in Vata vikaras
[12/25, 22:58] Prof. KSR Prasad Wardha:
Honey doesn't increase blood glucose but company made honey does it as it is from jaggary.
[12/25, 23:03] pawan madan Dr:
I still have doubts..
Poeple.when.take honey even the one not made by company...notice increase in sugar levels...
I am still on such observations.....
[12/25, 23:08] Prof. KSR Prasad Wardha:
Honeybee made honey has enzymes that cut the glucose depositions but the man made raises the blood glucose sir
[12/25, 23:34] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
Per 100 gm.of honey contain 304 calorie.
Per 100 gm of sugar contain 387 calorie.
But honey release instant energy as it contains simple monosachaarides.
But remember honey is not a zero calorie product.
[12/25, 23:37] pawan madan Dr:
Its almost same as sugar on calorie providing and how is it in terms of sugar levels in blood ?
@Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi
[12/25, 23:40] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
Honey is more rapidly raises blood sugar level in comparison to other carbohydrates.
[12/25, 23:43] shekhar singh MP:
मुक्ता , वराटिका , शंख chemically समान होते हुए भी जिस प्रकार गुणों में अंतर रखते हैं, वही अंतर शक्कर, गुड़, और शहद में है।
मधु की उतपत्ति में विविध विषपुष्पों का योगदान भी माना गया है, जबकि आजकल का शुद्ध शहद भी Farming का परिणाम है, जिसमे प्रायः एक प्रकार के पुष्पों से ही मधुमक्खियां संग्रह करती हैं ।
[12/25, 23:47] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
U r right but peoples live in new era where u have to take decisions according to modern environment.
Peoples are taking artificial honey.
And everyone have to understand that peoples consume all those products which are not real but actually artificial / contaminated etc.
[12/25, 23:50] Janardan Dr:
Despite the sugar content in honey, due to its vrana shodhana and anti obesity benefits, it can be useful in some select diabetics.
It is best to avoid honey in uncontrolled diabetes or say, people with an fbs above 150-160 or hba1c above 7.5 (numbers are from my experience and not validated by any clinical study Yet).
[12/26, 06:57] S A Soni:
Manu Sir !!
Many aspects of various types of Honey yet to be explored because total 8 types of Honey has been mentioned but we use it as a single jangam product ignoring / without identifying. That's why variations in opinions are there.
Pharmacies owned by Ayurved vaidyas may initiate in area by introducing various subtypes of Honey. Surprisingly almost none research was done in this area.
Experts of swathavritta / DG may do something regarding this.
Surprisingly Yog-ratnakar advocates pak of Honey while we have a perception that Ayurved bar the pak of Honey.
Experts please opine.
[12/26, 07:01] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
Thanks Sir....sure written references are favourable but as one has to depend on market available products...and moreover to be honest I always scared use of honey in diabetes.....though Dr Parveen yesterday gave me confidence....Now question is which honey and from where and how it can be used as treatment of DM.
[12/26, 07:02] S A Soni: That to be done yet....
[12/26, 07:04] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
Looking to Dr Praveen Manikonda ...which he is using.....May be he enlightens on this issue
[12/26, 07:06] S A Soni: We should request to them.
[12/26, 07:06] Manu Vats Dr Patiala: Sure I noticed it Sir
[12/26, 07:07] S A Soni:
[12/26, 07:09] S A Soni:
Like Honourable Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sab. , Dr Sunil Vashishth Sir and many other respected members.
[12/26, 07:18] Praveen Medi Dr:
1. Honey is safe and effective only if given as anupana with our recommended drugs such as nishamalaki in Diabetes.
2. The quantity of honey which we give for diabetes as anupana is minimal but at the same time it makes the whole combination qualitatively effective.
[12/26, 07:19] S A Soni: 
[12/26, 07:21] Praveen Medi Dr:
J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1990 Jul-Aug;13(6):322-5.
Differential effects of honey, sucrose, and fructose on blood sugar levels.
Shambaugh P, Worthington V, Herbert JH.
[12/26, 07:23] Praveen Medi Dr:
The above study shows honey is better than Sucrose in diabetic individuals.............Honey provided the fewest subjective symptoms of discomfort. Given that honey has a gentler effect on blood sugar levels on a per gram basis, and tastes sweeter than sucrose so that fewer grams would be consumed, it would seem prudent to recommend honey over sucrose.
[12/26, 07:23] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
Ok thanks ..Sir any brand you prefer for Honey.
[12/26, 07:25] Praveen Medi Dr:
But when we give honey as anupana with our drugs than its negativity is nullified. and with our proper anupana how can we imagine the the formulation specific to be effective against the dosha ?
[12/26, 07:29] S A Soni: Right Sir
[12/26, 07:31] Praveen Medi Dr:
i preferably get honey from a direct source "from villagers who are traditionally trained for this purpose" from a known source for my panchakarma and other therapeutic purposes. But in the absence of it i recommend my patients to use patanjali/kottakal brand which appears to be a reasonable alternative these days with no deleterious effects...............
[12/26, 07:31] Praveen Medi Dr:
[12/26, 07:35] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
[12/26, 07:42] Prof. KSR Prasad Wardha:
It is not with calories
Any food has it
The question is of consumption or storing
Honey calories are consumed where in sugar retain.
[12/26, 07:52] Praveen Medi Dr:
Sir, Sounds interesting to learn yogartanakar views on heating of honey, but as you know, madhu in hot combinations is allowed only for Vamana and Niruha Vasti purpose.... As it gets eliminated without getting digested.
न चोष्णविरोधो मधुनश्छर्दनयोगयुक्तस्य, अविपक्वप्रत्यागमनाद्दोषनिर्
एवं बस्तिप्रयोगेऽपि मधुन उष्णाविरोधो वर्णनीयः|
I still feel ushna samskara would be an undesirable samskara for madhu for therapeutic purposes.............simply as its need does not arise
[12/26, 08:00] S A Soni:
Yes Sir
I just quoted the reference only.
Indications were not instructed by author.
Probably the author impressed by Unani medicine.
[12/26, 08:12] pawan madan Dr:
Thats we needed to take care.
I second Dr Janardhan, honey of any kind increases sugar levels when taken as a substitute fir sugar.
If taken as anupaan, in that too we need to advice the ot noy to take in large amounts, I usually say to pts ...add honey in few drops only so as it can be rolled like a pill and then swallowed with water.
This prevents many unwanteds effects of honey when it has to be used on long term basis as anupaan with some powder form medicine.
[12/26, 09:15] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
Excess calorie is always stored in the form of glycogen.
Hence we can't say that honey don't raise b sugar level.
One can cross check it by giving honey & do gtt test.
it is the subject of research to analyse the graphs of b sugar level fluctuations & serum insulin levels after consuming equivalent doses of honey( monosacharides) & sucrose( disacharides).
[12/26, 09:21] Ankur Sharma Dr Delhi:
Article ------
The impact of honey consumption on blood sugar levels
tends to be slightly better than regular sugar.
One small experimental study on healthy subjects found
that although 75g of honey did raise blood sugar and
insulin levels in the first two hours, 75g of pure glucose
raised them both significantly more (3 ).
Similarly in type 2 diabetic subjects , honey also had a
much smaller impact on blood sugar levels than pure
glucose.
The same researchers also looked at how honey
compares with sucrose (regular table sugar), which is
more applicable to real life diets. Sucrose is made up of
glucose + fructose, just like honey.
The initial blood sugar spike measured at 30 minutes
was greater from honey than from glucose. However,
blood sugar levels in the honey group then dropped lower
than sucrose, and remained lower for the next two hours
( 3).
Honey was also seen to cause a greater rise in insulin
than from sucrose. Given that insulin removes sugar out
of the blood, this may explain why blood sugar levels
dropped lower in the honey group from 60 minutes
onwards.
For type 1 diabetics , the impact of honey on blood sugar
levels was also far less than pure glucose or regular
table sugar (4 ).
Summary: Honey spikes blood sugar levels
immediately after consumption. However,
after 60 minutes levels drop back down
considerably quicker than they do after
consuming regular sugar. This appears to
hold true for healthy individuals and
diabetics.
Other studies looking at when diabetics eat
honey
Several studies
have looked at
the addition of
honey to the
diet, rather than
just as a
replacement to
sugar.
Focusing on
type 1
diabetics, a 12-
week study
found that
additional
honey improved
short-term
blood sugar
levels as well
as lipid profile (like cholesterol) and total fat mass (5 ).
Unfortunately long-term blood sugar levels (HbA1c)
were not measured, so we don’t know if those
improvements had any lasting effect.
The longest similar study on type 2 diabetics was eight
weeks. While they also found benefits for lipids and body
weight, long-term blood sugar levels actually increased
with added honey use ( 6).
This makes sense on the surface, because honey is
sugar after all. But the findings from that particular study
actually contradict much of the evidence in this area.
Surprisingly, honey does not seem bad when you
consider all the other human and animal studies that
supplement honey alongside anti-diabetic drugs.
In fact, the weight of current evidence indicates
additional honey is neutral at worst, and beneficial at
best (7 ).
While it’s romantic to believe that all diabetics should
then be okay to eat honey, larger and longer human
studies are desperately needed for a clearer picture.
[12/26, 09:43] Chulet Sir Nia:
I met one fellow at Pune who is producing 12 varieties of honey collected from different seasons and flowers . He provides guarantee for its type . Means if it is jamun honey it procured from jamun flowers only can be confirmed by TLC
His maximum production is for export and for some vaidyas from Maharastra are using . Pune people know him.
[12/26, 10:02] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
We hv *samskruta Madhu* used by some companies, mainly fortified with shunti...
I hv not used it in practice...Those who hv used it hv given variable feedback...
[12/26, 10:07] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
Same opinion here
Only honey and medicine with honey is a point to be focused upon...
Interaction between Madhu and medicine will yield to a different equation..
X+Y = Z
I said yesterday, I too didn't hv problem using honey in practice...Honey increases efficacy of the medicines, like any other Anupana or sahapana...Not to be ignored or taken lightly...
Take away honey from prescription...Results will be variable...
I second Dr Praveen's say
[12/26, 10:10] Prof. KSR Prasad Wardha:
Honey is yogavahi
[12/26, 10:11] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
[12/26, 10:17] Vd Ranga Prasad Ji Chennai:
None of the food items available in the market are totally 100% genuine 
.
We eat it.
Still live our life.
The secret lies not in those food items, but the adaptation of inner engineering of our shareera created by the almighty with fields of dasha vidha energy system (nADi) to the items consumed.
*पुरुषं इयं अन्नमयं*
[12/26, 10:27] Vd Ranga Prasad Ji Chennai:
Human energy field is very very mystique and have never been explored by the scientific community.
Being controlled by the manas and atma the marmas in association with the energy fields (in fact these marmas are the abode of energy fields and further considered to be the satellites of manas principles) help maintain the health or unhealthy situations in our physique.
A pravara satva and avara satva principle is the mukhantara for any sanchay, prasara, prakop avastha to get either manifested or not getting manifested into sthanasamsraya, vyakti and bheda avastha when indulging in or not indulging in nidanas causing the disease.
This is my humble observation in clinical practice since the last decade.
And it explains why a person who is abhyAsita of smoking cigarettes, chutta etc for a longer period of life lives even upto 90 years healthily and why a person with no habits and clean hygiene and nourishing + balanced foods gets unhealthy in a fraction of second.
Experts might differ in my view and contradict the opinion. But still, I stand by my above observation.
[12/26, 10:31] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
Nothing is genuine 100%
Adaptation is the key to survival sir...And the fittest and stubborn survive
We hv evolved searching, hunting and adapting...We are still doing it...We will keep doing it...
Well said
[12/26, 10:37] Praveen Medi Dr:
Yogavahi is a Very vital property of honey
[12/26, 10:42] Praveen Medi Dr:
"Yogavahitwa" can change the entire perspective of pharmacological action of a particular drug. If we take the example of "PIPPALI" its only because of "yogavahitwa, it acts as "Vrishya" despite possessing "katu"rasa. In the similar lines it could be possible to elicit the beneficial effect of "MADHU" in madhumeha....
[12/26, 10:50] Praveen Medi Dr:
योगवाहित्वेन कटुकानामपि पिप्पलीनां वृष्यप्रयोगेषु योगः................chakrapani on pippali yogavahitwa
[12/26, 11:28] Praveen Medi Dr:
Chakrapani defined "Yogavahi" in a very interesting way .............................
योगाद्योगिनो गुणं वहतीति योगवाहः
Yogavahi is the quality of the additive (honey) in retaining the characteristics of yoga (the formulation).
[12/26, 12:29] Praveen Medi Dr:
@ Dr. Manu, Sir, Therefore Honey when combined with a diabetic Preperation adopts the properties of yoga itself and hence, hyperglycaemic effect is visible ...
[12/26, 12:56] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
[12/26, 12:57] Praveen Medi Dr:
Hypoglycaemic effect ...
[12/26, 12:59] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
[12/26, 13:01] Praveen Medi Dr:
Sharing the knowledge is the need of the hour. Not an issue.
[12/26, 13:14] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
Just like Vayu –
योगवाहः परं वायुः संयोगाद् उभयार्थकृत्।
दाहकृत् तेजसा युक्तः शीतकृत् सोम संश्रयात्॥(च.चि.३/२८)
Vayu is a Yogavahi. Vata behaves like Pitta and acquires daaha, ushnata etc pitta gunas on association with pitta. The same Vata on association with kapha, acquires sheetadi gunas and behaves like kapha.
In spite of being sheeta and having properties of itself, Vayu takes the form of whichever dosha it carries in circulation and produces a similar impact (ushnata or sheetata) wherever it goes.
Here, Vayu creates the impact of dosha it is carrying and doesn’t manifest itself.
Similarly we can think about Madhu.
*Madhu creates an impact of the medicine it carries to the target tissue or organ, but doesn’t manifest itself too much*.
But the medicine may act in a better way in breaking the samprapti in presence of honey, just like iron which will be better used in presence of vitamin C (Ayurveda has also explained this in Rasayana Prakarana), like glucose which gets recognised and embedded into the cells only in presence of insulin etc.
Similarly, the medicines would act in an efficient way -
*only in the presence of madhu*. The medicine would anyway give results, but presence of madhu in *the combination can make an impact*!!.
While Madhu can make the medicine act in a better way (madhu impacting on medicine), *the medicine too might impact on madhu* (when in combination) and nullify some of its properties!!
And the combination, as I said may have an entirely different result
Like X + Y = Z, as I already mentioned, Let us not think about the Y which is madhu here, let us focus on Z formed due to the interaction between X, the medicine and Y, the honey which has a different impact on the disease and health!!
[12/26, 13:17] Pankaj Chhayani dr ndyad:
Purana madhu is desirable in DM
[12/26, 13:17] Praveen Medi Dr:
[12/26, 14:10] Manu Vats Dr Patiala:
[12/26, 21:33] Shital Joshi Dr. Vdo:
@ Dr raghuram, sirji,
doesn't it aggravate vata dosha and the disease ?
[12/26, 21:51] S A Soni:
Any Punekar expert can say something about 8 types of Honey...!
[12/26, 21:58] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
No, DrSheetal ji,
It's the best energetic drink...
It's not Madhu, it's madhudaka...
Equal quantity of Madhu and warm water...Shd be given...
The dilution shall be altered as needed....And it's not on regular basis....
[12/26, 22:03] S A Soni:
May be used fearlessly in any kind of thrombotic pathology too.
Caution should be taken in shuddhavat disorders.
I hope Raghu Sir would be agree.
[12/26, 22:11] S A Soni:
Yes Sir
Action of colloid substance is also seen that's why drugs act perfectly.
[12/26, 22:24] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:
Spot on sir
Agree, totally
************************************************************************
Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp group of well known Vaidyas from all over the India.
Suggestions & questions are welcome from the Ayurveda students. I shall try to get answer from experts and present here on webpage.
Compiled & edited by
Dr.Surendra A. Soni
M.D.,PhD (KC)
Associate Professor
Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa
Govt. Ayurveda College
Vadodara Gujarat, India.
Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com
Mobile No. +91 9408441150
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