WhatsApp Discussion series 28: 'Sneha-pravicharana' by Dr. Praveen Kumar Madikonda, Dr. Raghuram Bhatta, Prof. Ramakant Chulet Prof. K.S.R. Prasad, and Dr. Kapil Kapoor

[12/23, 08:53] Praveen Mandikonda Dr:

       

Respected scholars of  Ayurveda,  Whether "Sneha Pravicharana" is meant for Sodhana purpose or Samana purpose??? whether samyak snigda lakshana's  apply for Pravicharana sneha yoga's as well......( ref :charaka sutra 13/23-25).......

let me have an opinion from the forum of Intellectuals 

ओदनश्च विलेपी च रसो मांसं पयो दधि| 

यवागूः सूपशाकौ च यूषः काम्बलिकः खडः||२३|| 

सक्तवस्तिलपिष्टं च मद्यं लेहास्तथैव च| 

भक्ष्यमभ्यञ्जनं बस्तिस्तथा चोत्तरबस्तयः||२४|| 

गण्डूषः कर्णतैलं च नस्तःकर्णाक्षितर्पणम्| 

चतुर्विंशतिरित्येताः स्नेहस्य प्रविचारणाः [१] ||२५|| 

                                    charaka sutra 13/25

[12/23, 09:29] Prof. KSR Prasad Wardha: 

Dear

The snehapracichara are the mode of Sneha administration ... all are intended to use either single or in combination ... ultimate samyaksnigdha results are ascertained through symptoms ...there is a need of initiating biochemical markets for samyaksneha 

Another question in common is all snehapana is with only plain ghruta ... medicated ghruta are only shamana Sneha

[12/23, 10:32] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: Thanks sir  

[12/23, 10:33] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:   

[12/23, 10:34] pawan madan Dr: 

Sir...the quesrion is weather the Sneh pravicharana is for shodhan or shaman purpose?

[12/23, 10:51] Chulet Sir Nia: 

Pravicharnas r for both purposes for snehan.

For shodhan accha pan should be preferred.

[12/23, 10:59] Vd. Radheshyam Soni dr: 

पर सर प्रविचारना तो स्नेह विद्वेषी के लिए ही है, फिर अच्छ स्नेह की बात ही कहाँ रही

[12/23, 11:09] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: 

I feel *Pravicharana is not Shodananga* not given for preparing the patient for Shodhana *not essentially given with a purpose of causing Shodhana*, as Snehapana is given in Purvakarma of Shodhana / Panchkarma procedures.

For Shodhana, Sneha (only Sneha) should be given in high doses on empty stomach, while it's not a rule in Pravicharana.

On the other hand *Pravicharana might cause mild to moderate cleansing*, depending on Prakriti, Vikriti and Koshta of patient

It is *neither totally Shamana in nature* (not essentially given with a purpose of causing Shamana), *but can hv Shamana effect*. 

For Shamana, the Sneha should be given before food in presence of hunger, when Agni is getting manifested.

But some form of Pravicharana snehas are *food by themselves*. 

To be considered as Shamana Sneha, all Pravicharanas should abide to a common rule or principle, which is missing here.

Pravicharana Sneha, I feel is an *intellectual way of combining Sneha* with food or given in some other pathway (other than oral) for patients who are reluctant to take Sneha in large doses, through oral route ( *Sneha dweshi, Sneha klanta, Sneha asatmya, Sneha ayogya*) but bringing about Snehana in him or her, gradually, is intended without causing aversion or rejection. 

It is a *disguised form of Sneha* administration. 

If we observe, many are *Snehatulya*, rather than being Sneha themselves.

Pravicharana being combined with food in some instances, can be *Brimhana* in nature. 

They can act like *Balyas and Rasayanas* in nature, if taken regularly for long periods (need shd be seen again). 

*Coming to Snigdha lakshanas -*

Since Pravicharana Sneha is Sneha, it produces snehana, obviously. 

But they need not satisfy the Snigdha lakshanas mentioned in our classics. 

I feel we need not wait for *shastrokta Samyak Snigdha* lakshanas in case if Pravicharana Sneha.

[12/23, 11:25] Shivali Arora KC: 

Pravicharana is used for both shodhan and sanshaman

[12/23, 11:38] S A Soni: 

PERFECT INTERPRETATION Raghuram Sir.....

[12/23, 13:03] Praveen Medi Dr:

  Very elaborate version on Vicharana Sneha  is presented by you Raghu sir, really a thought provoking... And rational .... But kindly consider my interpretation as wel sir 

[12/23, 13:04] Praveen Medi Dr: Sounds more appropriate sir

[12/23, 13:06] Praveen Medi Dr: 

प्रविचार्यते अवचार्यतेऽनुकल्पेनोपयुज्यतेऽनयेति प्रविचारणा   chakrapani 

1. Chakrapani says pravicharana is an application (avacharana), which can be used as alternative to the existing module of snehana (anukalpana)....................

2. Hence pravicharana sneha should be taken as an alternative to the more acceptable model of Acchapeya.

3. There is no second thought in the fact that accha peya is preferable for sodhana purpose. But under some special circumstances where patient is unable to consume the plain sneha dravya, a modified version is presented which is more patient compliant could be termed as “Vicharana sneha”.                                                                                                                  

4. The very genesis of the concept of “Vicharana sneha” is from a view point of making sneha dravya palatable, consumable and more patient friendly. For those who cannot consume “Acchapeya” . The idea is to  make a shift  from “Apriya”(Hatable) to  “Priya (lovable). Therefore just like acchapeya, even vicharana sneha can be used for all practical purposes such as “sodhanaga sneha”, “shamana sneha” and “brimhana sneha “Understandably all other rules of sneha pana do apply even for vicharana sneha.

5. It has following two components......... in the first component (starting from Odana ...to Bhaksha)  the idea is to try and add some dietary supplement / a palatable item to make it more acceptable either for abhyantara snehapana or shaman snehapana . Abhyantara snehapana whether it is concerned with Achhapeya or Vicharana sneha involve Jatharagni. 

6. The second aspect of Pravicharana sneha involves all those different modes of application snehana, other than Oral route and hence devoid of involvement of Jatharagni.  They include abhyanga, nasyam vasti, uttaravasti, karnapurana, askhitarpana. As oral route is not involved, therefore question of palatability (priya/apriya) doesn’t arise here.

[12/23, 13:09] Praveen Medi Dr: 

Whether to consider samyak snidgha lakshanas for vicharana sneha or not? ???

1. SAMYAK SNIGHA laskanas apply for the first category (odana, vilepi, rasa,mamsa etc)  abiding the rules of abhyantara sneha pana. 

2. SAMYAK YOGA lakshanas apply for the second category( nasya, vasi, uttaravasti etc) as per the rules laid down for that particular procedure, vis; for nasya, nasya samyak yoga, for vasti vasti samyak yoga etc....

 Hence it is safe to assume that samyak snigda lakshas/ samyak yoga lakshanas do apply even for pravicharana sneha just like achhapeya and it can be used for both sodhana and samana purposes...............

[12/23, 13:14] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: 

Thanks Praveen sir  

Am gone through ua version, seems interesting    

Nice work n elaboration... Surely can be thought of in that angle...kudos     

[12/23, 13:18] Anupma Patra AIMS AYU: 

[12/23, 13:20] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:

Is an alternative, yes...But we are not practicing Pravicharana forms as Purvakarma for Shodhana, some might surely hv given a try...

But does it provide the same Samyak Snigdha lakshanas as is done by *achcha Sneha* us a million dollar question...

Again does it satisfy *the number of days of snehana* I.e. snehapana Kala..rule is a question

1. I feel let's not generalize and deviate from Shastra, achcha and Pravicharana hv their own importance..

2. Instead of *should be taken* I would prefer *can be taken as an alternative* version...

[12/23, 13:27] Praveen Medi Dr:

 .  Yes sir , vichaana Sneha needs a higher dosage to get Samyak snigha lakshanas than acchapeya but with in seven days it could be achieved, as per our experience with Odana, paya, yusha...    

But as you rightly pointed out " could be " used is more appropriate term than "Should be" 

[12/23, 13:28] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:

 3Yes, modified version, of course, but not a substitute, I feel

4. Yes, to an extent I would agree with this description   I too hv mentioned the same, though in a nut shell

But I doubt if we can include vicharana Sneha under Shodhananga or Shamananga sneha

The fact that they hv been *separately explained under the same context* makes them different, I feel we can't classify or include Vicharana under these headings, Why would there be such a blunder on the part of Acharyas to explain them separately, if they could be used interchangeably

5.Agree  

6.Since we hv this part under Pravicharana, I am reluctant to accept that all rules of achcha Sneha are applicable for Vicharana sneha

Rules should be same for all Pravicharanas, and rules are not same, there is no *pana* concept here, therefore rules of achcha snehapana don't apply

For snehapana to be equated with Pravicharana, all or almost types should go under the hammer of *jatharagni*.

[12/23, 13:36] Raghuram Dr Banguluru:

 1.May apply, but I am reluctant to accept this

2.Yes✅✅but we don't call them *Samyak Snigdha lakshanas*

That's the point...

[12/23, 13:40] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: *Not as a rule*, I feel, 

Pravicharana may bring effects of Shodhana and or Shamana and Brimhana, *but are not administered with purpose of doing so*!!

Other Gurujan can comment and clarify  

But this is for *Praveen sir*

        

[12/23, 15:44] Praveen Medi Dr:

 Dear Sir, ,  we have three modules of Sneha procedures .......

[12/23, 15:44] Praveen Medi Dr: 

1. Accha peya

2. Vicharana sneha

3. Sadya sneha

[12/23, 15:45] Praveen Medi Dr: 

4. Acchapeya is the best variety for sodhana purpose and there is hardly any doubt.   

5. Vicharana sneha is mentioned for those who cannot take huge amounts of unpalatable ghee

6. Sadya sneha, when we need quick means of  oleation/ snehana.

[12/23, 15:47] Praveen Medi Dr: 

7. Acchapeya has been termed as “PRATHAMA KALPANA” by charaka 

अच्छपेयस्तु ............. कल्पः प्राथमकल्पिकः||२६|| 

and “SRESTA KALPANA” by Chakrapani. 

प्राथमकल्पिकः, श्रेष्ठ इत्यर्थः                                                                                                     Though Acchapeya  is best if it is not indicated, other modes of snehana must be used.

[12/23, 15:48] Praveen Medi Dr: 

स्नेहसात्म्यः क्लेशसहः काले नात्युष्णशीतले | 

अच्छमेव पिबेत् स्नेहमच्छपानं हि पूजितम्                                                                                                                                                         8. INDICATIONS for ACCHAPEYA  mentioned  by acharya susruta as    in susruta chikista 31/21.... which says snehasatmya, (one who is habituated with achhapeya), klesa saha(one who can bear with hard ship), na ati ushna-seeta kala ( a season which is neither too cold nor too hot)...............

[12/23, 15:49] Praveen Medi Dr: 

स्नेहद्विषः स्नेहनित्या मृदुकोष्ठाश्च ये नराः| 

क्लेशासहा मद्यनित्यास्तेषामिष्टा विचारणा| 

charak sutra 13/ 82     

9. Where as Acharya Charaka mentioned INDICATIONS for VCHARANA SNEHA charaka sutra 13/81

10. For sneha dwesha (the one who has aversion for sneha), snehanitya (the one who is habituated to take snehana) and mrudukosta (one who gets easy purgation), klesha asaha( one who cannot sustain hard ship, in this context difficulty of taking huge quantities of unpalatable ghee), madya nitya( alcoholic)   has been advocated vicharana sneha.

[12/23, 15:58] Praveen Medi Dr: 

11.Therefore we can assume that both  modules of snehana administration have their own indications and therefore, to limit their usage only to sodhana or samana is  nothing but undermining their wider range of application

[12/23, 16:09] Kapil kapoor: 

Acha sneha is crystal clear sneha.

When we melt medicated or non medicated ghrutham both turns out to be crystal clear. Medicated ghrutham shows slight characteristic colour but no opacity. 

So whether it's non medicated or medicated both can be used for snehana as well as shamana...

[12/23, 16:23] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: 

1-10  No comments, all are classical references 

11 - Spot on  they hv their own indications and implications 

I hv not mentioned that we should undermine the wider range of applications, in fact I had accepted that there is no harm in trying and we need to follow yukti...With snehadwesha and all the intolerance of Sneha (I hv already said this in previous posts)   Pravicharana can be thought of as a mode of administration of Sneha...No doubt 

But there is a thin line of demarcation between achcha and Pravicharana...

*Giving with intention of administering Shodhana or Shamana (achcha)* 

and 

*Sneha causing or bringing about a Shodhana or Shamana effect (Vicharana)*

I hv said this too  

Hence *not against accepting* their wider range of application

I think my previous posts will give a clarity on this issue

Finally, let's be open minded, do experimentations, research...Apply yukti...And emerge with new concepts...That's healthy for our science  

[12/23, 16:34] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: 

Let's handle the terms given in Shastra as it is, and understand them in true sense...And then we hv liberty...Our yukti...Shastra too isn't against it.....

While practically implementing them let us blend theory, practice and experiences comprehensively and meaningfully and contribute something to the science of Ayurveda, of course with a transparent, open hearted and modernized vision with broad horizons, not disturbing the sanctity of Ayurveda...

This platform does!!!

Thanks to Soni sir and all gurujans, colleagues and friends involved in like minded churning of knowledge   

[12/23, 16:37] Praveen Medi Dr:

 . Respected sir, it's a great pleasure to share your knowledge. Yes sir, you have given new light to the concept  and validated some of my points. Clarified doubts. Glad to interact with you sir. Yes yukti has to be applied with science as you rightly said where ever doubt arises

[12/23, 16:50] Raghuram Dr Banguluru: 

Dear Praveen ji..

Pleasure is also mine...Had a nice discussion with you...You hv got good, valid points for discussion, all of us are seeking to learn something new, *everyone is a guru* the quest for knowledge should be an ongoing process which should be updated and validated with time, by successive generations 

Thanks for invoking this interesting topic for discussion on this Elite platform...  

Thanks to everyone who have added inputs and enlightened me in due course of discussion  

Let's still keep this debate open for discussion

*Jayatu Ayurveda*

[12/23, 17:32] Kapil kapoor:

 *चरक ग्रहणी चिकित्सा*

व्याधियुक्तस्य मन्दे तु सर्पिरेवाग्निदीपनम्| 

उपवासाच्च मन्देऽग्नौ यवागूभिः पिबेद्घृतम्||२०८|| 

अन्नावपीडितं बल्यं दीपनं बृंहणं च तत्| 

*चक्र:*-

अन्नावपीडितं यथा भवति तथा यवागूभिर्घृतंपिबेत्; अन्नावपीडितं च मध्यभोजनपीतं घृतंभवति ॥

May be of some help in the discussion.

[12/23, 17:53] Prof. KSR Prasad Wardha: 

Yes sir

The Acchapana is plain ghruta that can be consumed even to 500ml

And further there is no resistance fRon patient either for cost or taste

Here no shamana expectations only to bring dosh from shaka to koshta.

[12/23, 18:08] Prof. Ramakant Chulet Sir NIA:

 1-Pravicharnas r for both purposes for snehan

2-For shodhan accha pan should be preferred

We started from here in the morning . I was confident that up to evening all will reach on the justified justification of this doubt . I'm really happy Soni Ji that , maturity of thoughts is increasing day by day .

Question of millions and answer of billions .but the conclusion of trillion that we are thinking in a right way , we can conclude the topic rightly .

Dear friends why sneh an is compulsory for shodhan purposes means for Vaman and virechan , is this limited up to dosh utklesh , as in some cases is can be avoided or mridu form can be used .

************************************************************************

Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Suggestions & questions are welcome from the Ayurveda students. I shall try to get answer from experts and present here on webpage.

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC)

Associate Professor

Dept. of Kaya-chikitsa

Govt. Ayurveda College

Vadodara Gujarat, India.

Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com

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