WDS 75: UNDERSTANDING THE 'KLEDA' by Dr. Pawan Madaan, Prof. Giriraj Sharma, Dr. Bhavesh Modh, Dr. Shashi Jindal, Dr. D. C. Katoch, Prof. Mamata Bhagawat, Dr. Manu Vatsa & others.

[11/18, 1:55 PM] Vd. Aashish Kumar, Lalitpur: 

स्वेद एवं मूत्र का कार्य लगभग एक जैसा है, क्लेद को शरीर से बाहर निकालना। अगर किसी कारण मूत्र से क्लेद कम निकले तब स्वेद द्वारा क्लेद को निकालकर मूत्रवह स्रोतस का भार कम किया जाता है। (क्रिया शरीर मे पढा था ऐसा आज सुबह)🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 1:57 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

प्रमेह में मूल हेतु स्निग्ध अन्न

दुष्य मेद 

क्लेदता अन्न एवं मेदगत अन्य धातू सहित 

प्रमेह में *देह चिक्णनता*  स्वेद जन्य कर्म विधात जन्य

अविलमूत्रता मूत्र वाहक क्लेद में 

क्लेद किसे समझे ,,,,

धातु पाक से ठीक पूर्व अवस्था,,

जो धातु गुण तो रखती है परन्तु तरतम भेद लिए 

 स्व धातु साम्यता जैसी नही

🙏🏼🙏🏼🌹🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/18, 1:59 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Sir One question comes to Mind.. KLED is related SVED(MED MAL) or VASAA (MAANS MAL)...

As properties of VASAA is more likely to Kled..??

[11/18, 1:59 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

ये बहुत प्रयोगिक भी है 

ग्रीष्म काल मे अल्प मूत्रप्रवृति

बहु स्वेद प्रवृति

शरद में अल्प स्वेद, मूत्र कुछ मात्रा में ज्यादा प्रवृत्त

[11/18, 2:01 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

मुझे लगता है क्लेद कोई धातू विशेष का नही ,,,

यह अवस्था मात्र है जो हर धातु में उसके असम्यक अल्प पाक से होती होगी ।

🙏🏼🙏🏼🌹🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/18, 2:01 PM] Vd. Aashish Kumar, Lalitpur: 

सर वसा का प्रमाण 3 अंजली और मेद का 2 अंजली बताया है।

[11/18, 2:02 PM] Vd. Aashish Kumar, Lalitpur: 

जी सर, ऐसा ही होता है, धन्यवाद🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 2:07 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Sir I asked because of SNIGDH guna of VSAA and I think KLED also somewhat linked to snigdh Guna..

Whereas SVED is concerned with AADR(WET) I.e. JALIYA..as per Sharangdhar..🙏🙏

[11/18, 2:09 PM] Dr. Mrityunjay Tripathi, Gorakhpur: 🙏🙏🙏

[11/18, 2:09 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 Kled is more watery part. aml lavan ras, hetu of prameh,  see excess use of aml lavan ras dosh, charak.🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/18, 2:13 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

If so Then Concept is like hitting Target👍👌

[11/18, 2:21 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

क्लेद ज्यादा जलीय नही होना चाहिए,,,,

क्लेद शब्द कीचड़ जैसा होना चाहिए 

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🌹🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/18, 2:25 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

yes watery and gadla, e.g. rain water

[11/18, 2:27 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

भावेश सर 

क्लेद शब्द के विषय मे कुछ स्पष्ट कीजिए ।

🙏🏼🙏🏼🌹🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/18, 2:33 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

क्लेद low amount of water,,,,

🌹🌹🌹🙏🏼🌹🌹🌹

[11/18, 2:54 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 kled is actually a semi solid type of liquid,  from which we can separate water by a sieve, because its sticky and crushed solute particles block the holes of sieve. 

Same picture is in nephrones. 🙏🏼

[11/18, 2:55 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 even food prepared in cooker gets kledit.

[11/18, 2:57 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

समझ गया ,,,

दोनो एक ही बात है 

हलवा बनाने में जितनी मात्रा में उसमे घी पानी डालना होता है उतना डालने पर ही हलवा बन जाता है । परन्तु ज्यादा मात्रा में डालने पर वह कुछ पतला बन जायेगा राजस्थान में लपटा

उसी में सत्तू बनाने में जितना पानी डालना है उससे कम डालने पर वह सत्तू पेय नही बनेगा बल्कि रबड़ी की तरह बन जायेगा ।

मात्रा का निर्धारण द्रव्य एवं संस्कार जैसा ,,, परन्तु स्वरूप कीचड़ (रबडी जैसा)

[11/18, 2:59 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

halwa banane me jb sooji kachhi rh jaye tb kledit.

[11/18, 3:00 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

Semi solid 

कलल अवस्था 

🌹🌹🙏🏼🌹🌹

[11/18, 3:00 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 yes..

[11/18, 3:01 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 😅😅

[11/18, 3:01 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Sir What I m thinking is If we simply can make a decision that whether KLED is snigdh or not..

This can help to make out its  Relationship with VASAA (Snigdh) or SVED (NonSnigdh..I.e. salty water)...🤔🤔

[11/18, 3:01 PM] Dr Yogesh Gupta: 

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 MAM HOW WE CAN SEPARATE LIQUID FROM SUCH FOOD ... 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 3:04 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

🙏🙏🙏Thanks & Regards  Sir for  contributing your Expert opinion and sharing knowledge..

[11/18, 3:11 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 We can not, it is a cause of prameh, as krishra (khichari) is one hetu of prameh. I m doing open cooking these days.

[11/18, 3:12 PM] Dr Ankur Sharma, Delhi: 

12 hours fasting from sunset to sunarise

But people now take dinner at 12 am onwards

Cooker whistle mostly in midnight in metro cities

⬆ cortisol level⬆ HTN, ⬆ blood glucose level ⬆ atherosclerosis ⬆ insomnia ⬆ daytime drowsiness ⬇ sunexposure ⬇ vitamin d3 level ⬆ risk of getting CAD, OSTEOPOROSIS.

[11/18, 3:13 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 snigdh...
Manu Sir !

[11/18, 3:14 PM] Vd. Aashish Kumar, Lalitpur: 

मैंने भी भावेश सर से अलग से निवेदन पहले ही कर दिया था सर🙂🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 3:49 PM] Dr Bhavesh Modh: 

शब्द का मूल भाव व अर्थ प्रस्तुत करना *गूंगे के गुड* जैसा है ।

फिर भी यथा मति एक कोशिश कर रहा हूँ 🙏

*क्लेद* शब्द *क्लिद* से आता  है । जो की मूल *रूदन*  के भाव से सबंधित है, दुसरा भाव *आद्र* का है ।

रूदन व आद्रता ... 

भावुकता से प्रकट होते है । यह मनोभाव या हृदय के भाव है ।

क्लेद,  शरूआत मे *पेसीव* व कम फोर्स के होते है पर दुसरे को व्यथीत करते है, क्लान्त करते है ।

अतः क्लेद  मे स्वयंमेव आद्रता पेसीवली  आती है और कुछ अच्छा महसूस नही होता  बोरींगनेस पैदा होती है ।

इसी मूल धातु से क्लिन्न, क्लैब्य, क्लेश, क्लिष्ट,  आदि शब्द बने है जो भी दुःखवेदना पैदा करते है 

उसके सामने ज्यादा या प्रभूत  जल मात्रा अधिकांश सुख देती है ।

क्लेद का उदाहरण..

गर्म व मोश्चयुर वाले वातावरण मे नमक की जो आद्रता पैदा होती है वह क्लेद है ।

ताजा कटा मांस मे से गर्म वातावरण मे जो चिपचिपा पानी जैसी चीज रीसता है वह भी क्लेद का  उदाहरण है ।

जीवंत मांस  मे से जो अच्छ चीपचीपा पदार्थ निकलता है वह वसा है । 

वसा *तरूणावस्था* है 

जबकी मेद *प्रोढावस्था* है ।

[11/18, 3:51 PM] Vd. Aashish Kumar, Lalitpur: 

आप कमाल की व्याख्या करते हो सर🙏🏻🙏🏻🌹🌹👏🏻👏🏻🙂

[11/18, 3:59 PM] Vd. Aashish Kumar, Lalitpur:

 इसका अर्थ है सर कि क्लेद गाड़ा गीला तो है, लेकिन चिपचिपा नहीं। इसीलिए मूत्र एवं स्वेद भी चिपचिपा नही है।

क्लेद मूत्र पुरीष और स्वेद द्वारा शरीर से बाहर निकलता है अगर शरीर मे अधिक मात्रा में क्लेद हो,क्योकि क्लेद भी संतुलित मात्रा में शरीर के लिये जरूरी है त्वचा को नम(गीला) रखने के लिये।

(क्या मैं ठीक समझ रहा हूँ)🙏🏻

[11/18, 4:02 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼💐🙏🏼

[11/18, 4:05 PM] Dr Bhavesh Modh: 

क्लेद, चिप चिपा हो भी सकता है और नही भी, 

पर इसकी प्रमुख केरेकटरीस्टीक है की boringness को उत्पन्न कर के हि रहेगा ।

इसलिए उसको *क्लेद* 

( *क्लि + द* ) कहा गया है , इस शब्द मे  जो *द* है वह देनेवाला या पैदा करनेवाले का द्योतक है ।

[11/18, 4:08 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Thanks for detailed information Sir... Can we categorically develop its relation to either VSAA(Snigdh) or SVED (Non snigh.. saline property).. which one is appropriate.

[11/18, 4:48 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

क्लेद पर एक विस्तृत चर्चा जो चुकी है।

[11/18, 4:50 PM] pawan madan Dr:

 Kled is a group of different entities having some similar properties and all those needed to be evacuated from the body.

[11/18, 4:56 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏🙏Sir fir... Aam aur kleda me kya difference hai ?🙏

[11/18, 5:00 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Good question.

आम भी एक प्रकार का क्लेद कह सकते हैं पर ये अपने आप बहुरगामी नही होता 

जबकि

क्लेद आम तौर पर शरीर से बहिर्गामी होने वाले कीचड़ जैसे पदार्थ को कहेंगे।

कई बार आप उनको synonym की तरह कह सकते हो पर उनके कार्यकारी भाव मे अंतर होगा।

🙏💐🙏

[11/18, 5:01 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

धन्यवाद भावेश जी।

🙏💐🙏

[11/18, 5:08 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 When we prepare halwa, we fry flour properly, when we put water its particles swell up, on more cooking it leaves ghrit, and does not stick to the pan.

But if any how flour is not properly fried, when we put water its particles do not swell up , but they become soft and sticky, and even on cooking, ghrit  can not be separated, and it sticks to the pan.

Sweat in varsha ritu, when air is humid, temperature is more, its nor raining, nor breeze is blowing, a sticky  chipchipaht is there, it is example of kled.🙏🏼

[11/18, 5:17 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

Kled is snigdh always, with fine small particle size, ammount of sneh can vary, as we can not get the sand kledit, because its particles are ruksh and large,soil can get kledit, because its particles are fine and snigdh.

Role of til pisht, rice flour in causing prameh is because they get kledit in GIT, during digestion , digestive enzymes can work on surface of food, they can not enter inside of ball of food, that is why kledit food can not be digested properly, it can cause constipation, indigestion,  alsak visoochika etc.🙏🏼

[11/18, 5:21 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 Two types, or effects according to surface, saves mucous lining, but blocks pores ??

[11/18, 5:21 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

क्लेद का osmosis easy है तभी शरीर के तापक्रम को नियमित करता है क्लेद की अनुपस्थिति म पित्त के अपकर्षण की अवस्था उतपन्न होती है 
क्लेद स्नेहन करता है वायु के रुक्ष गुण को बढ़ने से रोकता है आम वायु के साथ उपद्रव करता है

[11/18, 5:24 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏Sir क्या जैसे mahasrotas में जैसे आम है , वैसे ही रक्त में kleda समझ सकते हैं क्या ?🙏

[11/18, 5:27 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

नही सर् दोनो विषय अलग है क्लेद सर्व शरीर व्यापी है सभी धातुओ म है अकेले रक्त म नही मैन सकते स्लिश आलिंगने की जहा तक मर्यादा ह वह क्लेद है

[11/18, 5:28 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

kled and ambu, kled is guru snigdh, jl of varsh is kledit, ambu is clear water, laghu and snigdh, jal of sharad ritu.

[11/18, 5:29 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

जी में क्लेद को गुरु स्निग्ध सर शीत मंद मान सकते हैं

[11/18, 5:30 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏Sir Kapha Sarva sharir vapi hai...... Kleda to vikriti hai 🙏

[11/18, 5:31 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

Kleda is always vikriti🙏🌹

[11/18, 5:32 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

क्लेद को विकृति माने तो क्लेद की जरूरत ही नही है शरीर मे स्नेहन जहा होगा वह क्लेद अवश्य होगा

क्लेद  पित्तकफ के अधिक होने से वैकारिक होता है जैसे जल म रस गंध प्रादुर्भाव

 क्लेदक कफ के कार्य विचारणीय होंगे

[11/18, 5:36 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: yes

[11/18, 5:39 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

Function of ;

 Foundation before makeup. 

 Use of Moisturizer.

Use of sunscreen lotion.

??🙏🏼

[11/18, 5:42 PM] Sanjay Chhajed Dr. Mumbai: 

Dhavtantaranam yah drava sa kleda iti uchyate 

This definition suggests that kled is omnipresent

[11/18, 5:44 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

Yes sir🙏 

Kleda word is used for.....

To wet 

Moisture

Rotting 

Putrefying

Dampness

Discharge...? 

Different perception according to Prakrit and Vikrit Kapha......i think🙏

[11/18, 5:47 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

कफ को सर्व शरीर मान लेने से क्लेद भी स्वयमेव उपस्थित हो जाता है केन जलेंन फलति

[11/18, 5:49 PM] D C Katoch Sir: 

नवीन ज्ञान की प्राप्ति हुई 👏🏽👏🏽

[11/18, 5:51 PM] Sanjay Chhajed Dr. Mumbai: 

What you are mentioning is klinna  or kledan 

But Kled in Ayurved is terminology meaning the liquid present between the two dhatu. 

Can probably be equated to interstitial fluid.  

But better some one likes of *S K Khandel sir, B L Gaur sir, Girirajji, Manuji, Sanjay lungareji,*  elaborate  on this.

[11/18, 5:53 PM] Sanjay Chhajed Dr. Mumbai: 

Must be different from kaph,  kaph is vyapin with no physical existence,  while kleda has physical existence.  Moreover in kushta samprapti they both are mentioned separately 

-----sharirsya ja kled.

[11/18, 5:54 PM] D C Katoch Sir: 

मन, बुद्धि और आत्मा तीनों ही आह्लादित हैं आज की रोचक चर्चा परिचर्चा से। अद्भुत, अद्वितीय!!😌😌

[11/18, 5:55 PM] Sanjay Chhajed Dr. Mumbai:

 Precisely,  otherwise I  don't attend WhatsApp in daytime.  I can't resist myself from reading more. 

Kleda must have some relationships with skin and vrikka.

[11/18, 5:57 PM] D C Katoch Sir: 

कौन सी skin - बाह्य,  आभ्यन्तर या दोनों ।

[11/18, 5:59 PM] Vd. Aashish Kumar, Lalitpur: 

जैसे जल इकट्ठा रहने पर उसमे कृमि उतपन्न हो जाते है वैसे ही क्लेद अगर रुकेगा या अधिक होगा तो कृमि उत्पन्न करेगा।

(ऐसा सही हो सकता है क्या?)

दूसरा क्लेदक कफ और विकृत क्लेद में कुछ समानता है क्या?🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 6:01 PM] Dr Bhavesh Modh: 

👌👍😊

क्लेद व वातदोषावस्था  सबंध  चिंतनीय । फिजियोलोजीकल के साथ साथ साइकोलोजीकल  (इमोशनल आस्पेकट) प्रभाव  से भी,

[11/18, 6:09 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

yes sir kled is present in body, water is stored in form of kled(?), in body, in prameh rog this kled gets dooshit, and body converts it into urine,.ch nid 4.🙏🏼

[11/18, 6:11 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

सर

क्लेद भी व्याधि उत्पन्न करता है।

क्लेद एक medium है पर इसकी अधिकता से pathilogy होती ही है

😌

[11/18, 6:11 PM] pawan madan Dr: नही

[11/18, 6:11 PM] pawan madan Dr: 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[11/18, 6:17 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Sirji I'm not taking it as One Entity.  its sarvvyapi..iam only after whether snigdh or nonsnigdh... but Now with all discussions in Evening.. I'm going through and reaching a conclusion.. will share.

[11/18, 6:19 PM] D C Katoch Sir: 

क्लेद is not जल but जल is essential ingredient of क्लेद।

[11/18, 6:19 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala:

 To large extent I agree..

[11/18, 6:20 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Yes Sir that 100%True ..and also snigdh gun is also a part of KLED..Kya kehnaa hai aapkaa.

[11/18, 6:22 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Sir Every aspect of Kled can't be Vikrit..as per my view.

[11/18, 6:22 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Definitely...its there..it should be

[11/18, 6:23 PM] D C Katoch Sir: 

पृथ्वी तत्व की अधिकता से क्लेद अपेक्षाकृत तरतम भाव में रूक्ष हो सकता है।😎

[11/18, 6:23 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

hanji sir🙏🏼

[11/18, 6:24 PM] D C Katoch Sir: 

सो अहम् 

[11/18, 6:34 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

ये ठीक है लेकिन क्लेद को वैकारिक ही माने या कोई औऱ भी उपयोगिता ह क्लेद की ये विमर्शनिय है आचार्य

[11/18, 6:36 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

ये ही है आचार्य आप दोनों मत की पुष्टि कर रहे हैं

[11/18, 6:37 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

जी यही भाव ह मेरे  🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 6:39 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

सर् nonsnigdh ही रुक्ष होगा या कुछ ऒर

[11/18, 6:41 PM] Dr Bharat Padhar, Jaipur: 

Water soluble dhatu substance+water= Dhaturup kled, 

Water soluble excreta+ water= this solution is Mal rup kleda...

Eg..

Solution of water soluble vitamins and electrolytes etc...is Dhaturup kled...Solution of urea, creatinine and sodium etc being expelled out through body is Mal rup kleda.

[11/18, 6:42 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Here I meant only Jaliya actually comparing Vsaa with Sved...but now I realise it's wrong.. 

Finally you pls read my just previous post in reply to Katoch  Sir

[11/18, 6:43 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Thanks let's See Experts opinions..I just feel I am taking exams here..💐🙏

[11/18, 6:45 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏🙏Sir kleda jab tak kapha(prithvi+jal mahabhoot) ke jal mahabhoot ke maryada me hai ...Prakrut hai par 

Kleda jab kapha ke jal mahabhoot ke maryada se jyada badh jata hai to wo Vikrit hai........ Kya aisa sochna thik hai...??

[11/18, 6:45 PM] Dr Divyesh Desai: 

स्नेहनं की व्याख्या में

स्नेहनं स्नेह विष्यन्दम मार्दवम क्लेद कारकं 

स्नेह से क्लेद उत्पन्न ही सकता है, ओर स्नेहन द्रव्य के गुण

गुरु शीत सर स्निग्ध मन्द सूक्ष्म मृदु द्रवं औषधं स्नेहनं प्रायोः विपरितं विरुक्षणः।तो क्लेद का वर्धन करने के लिए स्नेह द्रव्य ओर क्लेद कम करने के लिये रुक्ष  द्रव्य का चिकित्सा में प्रयोग कर सकते है?

गुण के आधार पे क्लेद....

[11/18, 6:56 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Sir pls correct..Whereever I'm wrong. 

1) largely ..Kled is a poshak Tatav in Aanras..

2) Kled is a mixture of jal and prithvi mahabhoot..and got some snigdh guna also.

3) its evident KLEDAK KAF is present in Aamshay,its role is lubricating shleshmik klaa

4)Its main gets moved to other parts of body with effect of VAAT...so its vitiation can also  be mostly because of any VAAT dushtee..e.g. Samprapti of STHAULYA...

5) It is passed to all dhatus maintains smooth transformation along conversion of one dhatu to another ..also there respective MAL with UPDHATU.

So kled ANSH will be everywhere.

For Its Vikriti; only and only VAAT can  be responsible which leads to its Rukshta and thus degeneration or hardening of STHAN where its located...💐💐🙏

Pls comment

[11/18, 6:58 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

1 आप क्लेदयति पृथ्वी सह्न्ति

2 स्नेह क्लेदकारकम

3 क्लेदक कफ

4 क्लेद 

5 मूत्र क्लेद वाहकम

6 स्वेद क्लेद विधात

7 दुष्य क्लेद प्रमेह

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🌹🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/18, 6:59 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

Sir ..... Kapha me kledan guna hai ...mai sahmat hu......... kya atikledan kapha ko vikrit kar kleda(a type of  vikrit kapha) ka nirman nahi karega.......? 🙏🙏

[11/18, 7:03 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Thanks Sir  correction Done..

Non teaching  clinician hain Sir..That's why mistakes are being done...Just trying to learn from all you Academicians💐💐Regards

[11/18, 7:06 PM] Dr Divyesh Desai: 

अवश्य करेगा अति कफवर्धक या क्लेद वर्धक द्रव्य से क्लेद की वृद्धि हो कर भी कोई न कोई रोग उत्पन्न होने की सम्प्राप्ति बनेगी

हमे तो चिकित्सा में

क्षिणः वर्द्धितव्या, वृद्धा ह्रासितव्या समाः पालवितव्या का सिद्धांत का अनुसरण करना पड़ता है।

[11/18, 7:13 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Kleda is jalavargiya and jalvarguya drAvyas are always snigdh ...Only they differ in tara tama bhaav.

[11/18, 7:14 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

🙏🙏Sir aap jaise Gurujano se kuchh seekh saku issi liye prabhu ne Guru Soni Sir ke maadhyam se iss Gurukul samaan group se milaya hai......🙏🙏🌹🌹

[11/18, 7:15 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Kleda ek medium hai.

Kisi bhi tatva ki movement ke liye ye ek important requisite hai.

[11/18, 7:16 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

वाह🙏🏻🙏🏻🙂

[11/18, 7:16 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Wonderful....👌🏻👌🏻

[11/18, 7:17 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

@ Pawan Sir...endorses your statement. Kled ek medium hai...in this post..🙏💐

[11/18, 7:18 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Kledak kapha is no where related to kleda in general....

Both are different..

[11/18, 7:21 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 water soluble, means solution, kled does not seem to clear solution in reference to body, it may be emulsion,  colloidal,  or particles may be suspended in liquid.

???

[11/18, 7:25 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

Aml and lawan rs do kledan, ch sut 26, they both have agni mahabhoot, aml and lawan, prithavi and jl respectively.

[11/18, 7:38 PM] Dr Bharat Padhar, Jaipur: 

It's not necessary that solution may be always clear...as per quantity of components it may be turbid or clear...

[11/18, 7:38 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

We may understand kleda by the following submission -- this was the result of a previous discussion 

--- WHAT IS KLEDA ?

1. Kleda is any liquid in the body which is not a clear fluid.

2. Not clear like water.

3. This is not necessarily a Mala which has to be expelled.

4. It can be a group of many such liquids at various locations and at various times.

5. Some kind of kleda needed to keep in the body for some physiological actions, some other type of kleda is necessary to be expelled out when it cuuld act like a mala.

6. It is "MEDIUM" of conduction during and after digestion /Paachana & metabolism /dhaatu nirmitee.

7. When it is excess in quantity or if it's concentration/proportion of pruthvi jalam alters... it is dooshya/mala, as in kushtha meha shotha etc.

8. Whatever "flows" in the body through blood or lymph or csf or whichever is expelled out of body ; purisha mootra sveda khamala shvaasaBaashpa ... all is kleda ...

Even, cholesterol Urea sugar electrolytes seminal fluid menstrual blood breast milk pus discharges serum plasma csf pericardial fluid ... can be called as KLEDA. 

9. Kleda is rinsing medium, softener, cooking medium, solvent, conduction medium ...                                                           🙏💐🙏

[11/18, 7:40 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

जी अमल लवण आदि सभी छ रस द्रव्यमाप ksiti तथा से रस की उत्पत्ति ओर व्यापदेश भूयसा पर एक बार विचार करे तो रस की उत्तपत्ति जल से ह आकाश आदि अभिव्यंजक है इसलिए क्लेद करे तो करे लेकिन क्लेदन की प्रक्रिया अंदर होती है वहाँ जल की उपस्थिति म ही हो रही है मधुर भी क्लेदक होगा तर तमत्त्व से 🙏🏻🙏🏻ओर आप विचार देवे

[11/18, 7:45 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

Prakrut kapha = prithvi & jal mahabhoot ( in certain ratio for that person)

Vikrit kapha : 

Prithvi+++ & jal++ = Ama 

Chikitsa pachan 

Prithvi+ & jal +++ = kleda 

Chikitsa deepan , pachan

Only a hypothesis 🙏🙏

[11/18, 8:37 PM] Shantanu Das Prof KC: 

Regarding Kleda.... 
Small analysis...

Pipali.... Katy, guru, nati sngdha, nati ushna, vipaka Madhura... low dose Hitakari

Large nd continue intake cause..... Dosa sanchaya.... due to Guru nd Kledakari... It will create... Kapha utkkesh.... nd due to less snighdha it will not abel to subside the vata..... out come is kleda it self cause... kapha utkkesh nd incapable to vata samana....

Kshyara.... usna, tikhna, laghu... In 1st phase it is Kleda karaka.. then it is Soshaka..., digestive, vedana karaka... Excess use Punsatwa nasa (Imp)

Labana... usna, tikhna, Nati guru, nati snigdha.... Kledaka,  sansraka... Low dose is advisable with short period but dangerous in high nd long phase (imp)

Conclusion.... Pipali, kshysra, lavana.... three things reated to Kleda..... means realted to Diet.....

Not to advise take in long phase.....So kleda is purely out come of faulty aharaja........🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻.

[11/18, 8:37 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

yes👍🏼 

I needed this reference. Kleda shaithilyam aapadyati. ch sh 6/15. Shithilikarn is appropriate word for kledan. It is not only wettens, but to prepare the aahar or dhatu for pachan.🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/18, 8:58 PM] Prof Mamata Bhagwat: 

Very interesting discussion on Kleda as always. I would like to put forth some of the analysis as I understand. 🙏🏻🙏🏻

*Kleda is not a vikriti.*

1. Kleda is an outcome of Aap Dhatu. 

70% of our body is having Aap Dhatu. This Aap Dhatu is not in watery/ liquid form everywhere. 

It is in the form of moisture, a lubricant in between 2 different layers, or organs. It could be present as dravata around an organ. It could be in side a vessel, intra cellular or extra cellular. 

*क्लेदः शरीरस्थं जलम्।*

*द्रव द्रव्य विशेषो वा।*

2. It is one among the Ahara parinamakara bhava. The Ahara sanghatana/ kathinata comes down by kledamsha. Anna shaithilyata is done. 

It also brings ardrata to mala. 

3.   Kledana is a resultant effect of swedana. *स्वेदस्य क्लेद विधृतिः*

4. *आर्द्रत्वम्* the moisture that's present all over the body. 

5 . Mootra takes out the kledatwa from body. *क्लेद वाहनं*

It is to be noted that excessive accumulation of Kleda is vikriti. This happens by Santarpana in ati matra. 

Prameha, prameedha bhava, Sthoulya, Kushta, Shotha these are the diseases as typical example of Kleda vriddhi and vikruthi. 

*Bahu drava shlesha* the dosha vishesha in Prameha is nothing but klinna kapha. 

When kledamsha increases in pitta.. drava guna increases.. Ex - Pittaja pandu. 

Opposite quality of Kleda is *rooksha or shoshana* 

Whenever snigdhata is present, Kleda is invariably present. 

Best treatment approach to reduce Kleda is rookshana karma and apatarpana. Vamana, virechana, nirooha Basti are best methods to achieve this. 

This is my understanding of Kleda..

[11/18, 9:06 PM] Prof Mamata Bhagwat:

 In addition, Kleda is increased by amla and lavana rasa. Reduced by Vishada guna. 

Katu rasa guna.. shonita sanghatam bhinatti. This seems to be kleda. But it's not kledamsha. Katu is by agni, akasha and vayu bhootas. Kleda is typically by Aap mahabhoota. 

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 9:21 PM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 👍🏼👌🙏🏼

[11/18, 9:23 PM] Prof Mamata Bhagwat: 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 10:12 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

क्लेद शब्द कला परिप्रेक्ष्य में ,,,

शरीर मे क्लेद से सभी कलाओ का निर्माण होता है ।

शुक्र शोणित के संसर्ग से उष्मा के प्रभाव से *संतानिका* त्वचा का निर्माण करती है ।

सन्तानिका के नीचे जो शुक्र शोणित का संसर्ग हुआ उसमे शुक्र सौम्यम जल एवम आर्तव आग्नेय गुण से परस्पर उपकारात , उपस्नेहात , अनुप्रवेशच से  जो *क्लेद* उतपन्न होता है उस से ही कलाओ का निर्माण होता है इसी क्लेद से धातू *स्व उष्मभि* से (धातवाग्नि ) अंग प्रत्यंग निर्माण होते है ।

क्लेद  का तातपर्य सभी धातुओ की की पूर्व अवस्था ,,,,,

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🌹🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/18, 10:14 PM] Dr. Satish Jaimini Choumu, Jaipur: 

जी शांतनु जी क्लेद एक भाव ह प्रक्रिया है जो मधुर अमल कवन कटु क्षार केद्वारा catalise हो रही है आप धातु की उपस्थिति मे सम्पादित हो रही है ये ठीक है लेकिन इन सभी उदाहरण में सम सादगुण्यात की बंदिशे डाल दी गई हैं अल्प मात्रा अल्पावधिक सेवन पर ये नियम लागू नही है वार्ना कटु पिप्पली कफ का क्लेद का शोषण नही करती अत्युप्यूनजीत क्लेद कारक है लवण अमल क्षार की भीअल्प मात्रा क्लेदक तो होगी लेकिन आहार परिणमन के लिए विकार वस्तु नही

[11/18, 10:24 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

स्नायु  -क्लेद में रुक्षता

श्लेष्मा  -क्लेद में मृदुता

जरायु   -उत्पादक एवं पोषक भाव

[11/18, 10:39 PM] Prof Giriraj Sharma: 

आधुनिक परिप्रेक्ष्य में अंग निर्माण प्रक्रिया में स्नायु , श्लेष्मा , जरायु 

germ layers 

Ecto, Meso Endodarmal जैसी ही भूमिका है ।

क्लेद कला निर्माणक

क्लेदयति आप  

क्लेदक कफ 

क्लेद स्नेह जन्य 

मूत्र वहित

स्वेद विघित

दुष्य प्रमेहआदि

[11/18, 10:52 PM] Dr Manu Vats, Patiala: 

Mam Thanks  for giving the AMRIT of KLED MANTHAN...

Now I think..confusions will die on own death after reading your Inputs..

Regards 💐🙏

Manu Vats

[11/18, 10:53 PM] Prof Mamata Bhagwat: 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[11/18, 10:57 PM] Dr. Ravikant Prajapati M. D, BHU.: 

My all confusions now got cleared with all yours great inputs regarding Kleda ...... Thank you Mam🙏🙏💐💐

[11/18, 10:58 PM] Dr. Mrityunjay Tripathi, Gorakhpur: 

🙏🙏👌👌🙏🌹🌹

[11/18, 11:14 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Good evening sister.

*Kleda is not a vikriti.*

*(This statement is partialy true. It is physiological as well as pathological de pending on the matra, avastha etc)*

1. Kleda is an outcome of Aap Dhatu. 

70% of our body is having Aap Dhatu. This Aap Dhatu is not in watery/ liquid form everywhere. 👍🏻👍🏻

It is in the form of moisture, a lubricant in between 2 different layers, or organs. It could be present as dravata around an organ. It could be in side a vessel, intra cellular or extra cellular. *(👍🏻👍🏻that liquid which also does the function of transporting materials)*

*क्लेदः शरीरस्थं जलम्।*

*द्रव द्रव्य विशेषो वा।*

2. It is one among the Ahara parinamakara bhava. The Ahara sanghatana/ kathinata comes down by kledamsha. Anna shaithilyata is done. 

It also brings ardrata to mala. 

3.   Kledana is a resultant effect of swedana. *स्वेदस्य क्लेद विधृतिः*👌🏻👌🏻

4. *आर्द्रत्वम्* the moisture that's present all over the body. *(.....Not only moisture as the moisture may be a clear liquid whereas kleda is not a clear liquid)*

5 . Mootra takes out the kledatwa from body. *क्लेद वाहनं*....... *because this kleda is pathological and needs to be evacuated from the body*

It is to be noted that excessive accumulation of Kleda is vikriti. 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻This happens by Santarpana in ati matra. 

Prameha, prameedha bhava, Sthoulya, Kushta, Shotha these are the diseases as typical example of Kleda vriddhi and vikruthi. 

*Bahu drava shlesha* the dosha vishesha in Prameha is nothing but klinna kapha. 

When kledamsha increases in pitta.. drava guna increases.. Ex - Pittaja pandu. 

Opposite quality of Kleda is *rooksha or shoshana* 

Whenever snigdhata is present, Kleda is invariably present. 

Best treatment approach to reduce Kleda is rookshana karma and apatarpana. Vamana, virechana, nirooha Basti are best methods to achieve this. 

This is my understanding of Kleda..

My humble sub mission..

Kindly guide if wrong

🙏🙏

[11/19, 12:48 AM] Vaidyaraj Subhash Sharma, Delhi: 

*धन्यवाद आचार्य गिरिराज जी,डॉ पवन जी, डॉ ममता भागवत जी आदि का जिन्होने क्लेद पर बहुत सार्थक चर्चा की और बहुत कुछ नवीन जानकारी मिली।*

             🙏🙏🙏

[11/19, 7:54 AM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

Kledan of prithvi mahabhoot, to convert it into parthiv dravyas is must, that is why it is vikriti, but for origin of life it is physiology, and to remove parthiv dravyas (ml roop) out from the body again their kledan is must, it is again physiology.

But when kledan is pathological, it destroys normal consistency of dhatus, it may be more than normal (looseness), or less (hardness), in excretory matter ml again normal kledan is must, in case of urine, urine should be clear liquid, not translucent,  that is kledit mal should be first converted into clear liquid in the form of urine.
This is my small interpretation. 🙏🏼

As pr  digesion, madhur vipak (wetness of parthiv part), aml vipak (kledan), katu pipak (removal of excess watery part).

Effects of 6 rs;

 madhur- uplepan

Aml -kledak

Lavan -kledak 

ktu - cleans kled

Tikt- dries up kled

Kshaya- absorbs kled.
🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/19, 8:31 AM] Dr Shashi Jindal:

 Kled is jaleeye bhav in body.  ch sh 4/12

Kled is form of jal in body,  Aapah kledah  ch sh 5/5

[11/19, 8:36 AM] Vaidyaraj Subhash Sharma, Delhi: 

*very good morning too u Dr. Shashi ji ,very well you have explained what was required 'EFFECT OF षडरस - उपलेपन,क्लेदन etc.*

              💐🌺🌹

[11/19, 8:49 AM] Dr Shashi Jindal: 

Namaskaar sir 🙏🏼🙏🏼💐🌹🙏🏼🙏🏼 Kled word is used as noun (jal), and verb (to do kledan).🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[11/19, 2:12 PM] Dr Divyesh Desai: 

👌🏼🌺👌🏼 Excellent correlation between Shadras & Kled,
Panchmahabhut & Kled.


[11/19, 10:21 PM] D C Katoch Sir: 

Kleda is Jala + Prithvi bahulya. Jala dominance leads to more klinnta and prabhoot mutrata and prithvi dominance leads to less klinnta and mutravilata.



[12/4, 5:51 PM] Prof. Surendra A. Soni: 

Trying to differentiate the Kleda and Kledak kapha as Dr Aashish has asked the question....

[12/4, 8:38 PM] Prof. Surendra A. Soni: 

क्लेद क्लेदक कफ विभेद पर सभी आचार्यों से मन्तव्य प्रदान करने का करबद्ध नम्र निवेदन ।

🙏🏻🌷

[12/4, 8:38 PM] Vd. Aashish Kumar, Lalitpur: 

बहुत बहुत धन्यवाद सर🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[12/4, 8:41 PM] D C Katoch Sir:

 क्लेदक कफ प्राकृत क्लिन्नता करता है परन्तु अप्राकृत होने पर क्लेद उत्पन्न करता है।

[12/4, 8:42 PM] Dr Lalit Limje: 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[12/4, 8:42 PM] Prof. Surendra A. Soni: 

यही बताने का प्रयत्न किया है ।
आदरणीय कटोच सर ।
🙏🏻🌷


[12/4, 8:46 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

👌🏻👌🏻👏👏👏

...Kleda is not always metabolic waste
...It is not always vaikaarik
...This always need not to be evacuated from the body
...It carries Malas and takes them out of the body

Aisa maine abhi tak samjha...🙏😌

[12/4, 8:50 PM] Prof. Surendra A. Soni: 

Yes 
Agree
Vaikarika kleda is mainly differentiated.

[12/4, 8:55 PM] D C Katoch Sir: 

यही प्रयास किया था।

[12/4, 9:15 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Sharing a part of the discussion and conclusion done months back in another group for consideration here ---                                                                                                                                                             Kleda is the substance or an element that has qualities and properties ranging from mere physical wetness to the subtle, functional feature of cognition. This is the reason why it is said as the property of,  and derived from jala mahabhuta.

The basic difference between Jala and Kleda is that kleda is more than jala as it is formed by a unique combination of Jala, pruthvi, Agni and Vayu mahabhutas. Thus, in addition to properties of Jala,  Kleda has more unique properties and functionalities in the body.

So,  keeping this in mind, acharyas have used the word kleda to express an array of sense in two different basic situations:

1. Physiological situations; to express a sense of its normal abilities and functionalities.

2. Pathological situations: to express a sense of its potentials in disturbing or damaging various functionalities of  the body and give rise to different pathologies.

Thus Kleda means wetting, liquefying, emulsifying, dispersing, clinging, supporting, strengthening, connecting, communicating, electrifying, enabling, enriching, nurturing, cohabitation, cognition, so on and so forth in a context of physiological explanations.

Similarly Kleda means watering, filling, , hampering, dampening, extruding, exudating, exiting, exaggerating, intoxicating, putrefying, so on and so  forth in a context of pathological explanations.

So one has to know the fact that to understand the true sense of a word or statement of a samhita one needs to consider so many factors like literary  and usage meaning of the word, subject and context used in, intention of usage, inclination and intimacy of person with the subject, so on and so forth. If this is remembered there will not be any much distractions in understanding the science. Therefore it is said in samhita:


* Yes, the kledaka shleshma  is the source and centre for kleda present in entire body. *

* Yes, Kledaka kapha helps in formation and maintenance of shareera kleda.  Kledaka kapha is  the sourse for formation and functioning of kledatva of entire body including all varieties of kapha *.

* Yes, relation btw Kledaka kapha n sharira kleda are both qualitative & quantitative; and there  is always asraya aasrayee sambandha between them *.

[12/4, 9:26 PM] Dr. Ashok Rathod, Oman: 

🙏🏼🙏🏼💐💐Pawan Sir,
 can we say Prakrut Kleda is a natural distilled water formed during water metabolism? 
I'm willing to say it because in dehydrated cases, distill water with injected along with other agents like NS, DNS, RL etc. Your guidance is expected on this. 🙏🏼🙏🏼💐

[12/4, 9:26 PM] Prof. Surendra A. Soni: 

Slight correction is required.....
Avalambak kapha is main like pranavayu & Pachak-pitta.
👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻
उरःस्थः स त्रिकस्य स्ववीर्यतः। 
हृदयस्यान्नवीर्याच्च तत्स्थ एवाम्बुकर्मणा॥१५॥ 
*कफधाम्नां च शेषाणां यत्करोत्यबलम्बनम्।* 
अतोऽवलम्बकः श्लेष्मा 

क्लेदक कफ-
👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻

यस्त्वामाशयसंस्थितः॥१६॥ 
क्लेदकः सोऽन्नसङ्घातक्लेदनात्

Great conclusion Pawan Sir as usual. You summerise all basics systematically.
More importantly you used perfect terminology आश्रय आश्रयी भाव that I missed in differentiating table.

Thanks Pawan  Sir !!🙏🏻🌹

[12/4, 9:28 PM] Prof. Surendra A. Soni: 

Possibly yes...
We have discussed it as metabolic waste or byproduct.
Ashok ji !

[12/4, 9:28 PM] pawan madan Dr:

 Rather than saying water....If we say liquid...Then it gives more closeness....
Ashok ji !

[12/4, 9:29 PM] Dr. Ashok Rathod, Oman: 

Okay 🙏🏼🙏🏼💐

[12/4, 9:29 PM] pawan madan Dr: 

Thanks Soni Sir !
💐💐🙏💐🙏💐🙏💐🙏






**************************************************************************

Above discussion held on 'Kaysampraday" a Famous WhatsApp -discussion-group  of  well known Vaidyas from all over the India. 

Compiled & edited by

Dr.Surendra A. Soni

M.D.,PhD (KC) 
Professor & Head

P.G. DEPT. OF KAYACHIKITSA

Govt. Akhandanand Ayurveda College

Ahmedabad, GUJARAT, India.

Email: surendraasoni@gmail.com

Mobile No. +91 9408441150